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Do not work with DredWalker

I was commissioned to do some character work for a person called DredWalker on Deviantart. Everything seemed ok when we both agreed to work on his commission piece. So DredWalker said he would send me the first money order in the mail. Which was fine with me so I waited for the money order because I know it's takes about a week to come in the snail mail. First week nothing ok that's fine I can wait, second week nothing ok myabe the mail is slow, third week I e-mailed him back letting him know that I did not get his first money order and that I wouldn't start his project without him making the first payment.  I was charging him a $100 for one human character and one animal character. Our agreement was half up front and the rest of the money when the commissions was done. I'd post the image in my gallery with a water mark and an extra graphic because I knew water marks could be removed.

So he says ok and that it must have gotten lost in the mail, I say that's fine stop payment on that one and just send me other one when you get the money. After that 3 days later I finally got the first money order and  I started on the sketches them showed it to him he approved, then I moved on to the flat colors and he approved of that. Afterwards I would post each piece step by step in my gallery just in case he wanted changes. By the third stage he asked me to make a few changes which I did and it took me an two days. Working with DredWalker seemed to be going well. Here's the link with DredWalker saying he likes what going on so far and said he sent me an e-mail. In the e-mail he did ask for a few changes which I did.

However there was a problem at the end where I asked him to pay me the remaining $50 because I was finished with his commission.   DredWalker said he'd pay me by the end of the week with a personal check, I had to remind him that I didn't take personal checks again I gave him the reason why. Then I got another e-mail from him saying he wanted to see the final image. I didn't think much of it I sent him the final image with a water mark and extra graphic. As I stated here in my journal which I linked him to in our first e-mails back and forth.http://ebony-chan.deviantart.com/journal/14463671/

Then I got another e-mail from him saying he could barely see the image. So I sent him a larger image but I still kept the graphics on it until I was paid. Which is here  http://ebony-chan.deviantart.com/art/DredWalker-s-Dimiri-Done-70509230 let me know if you have a hard time seeing the image people. Again DredWalker e-mails me saying he couldn't really see that image because of the water mark and extra graphics on it and if I could remove them so he could have a better look. ( Oh like I haven't heard that one before! Ha! ) I told him one and they would stay until I was paid the rest of my money.  DredWalker then goes into this rant saying that he already sent me $50 and that I should trust him with the final image. I again said no the graphics stay until I am paid the rest of my money. He then posts in his journal that I cheated him out of money and that he never really got the project.

It's in the link below which you can flow to other links with talks between me and DredWalker. I also copied and paste his journal to mine and address each thing in it.

http://ebony-chan.deviantart.com/journal/15658247/

Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
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Comments

( 92 comments — Leave a comment )
badkitty
Dec. 9th, 2007 06:02 am (UTC)
he knew your guidelines.
he agreed to that by commissioning you.

i would NEVER give the full image before receiving the FULL payment.

that's setting yourself up to be screwed.

and since when to updates not count? how do they not understand where the image is headed from there?
ebony_chan
Dec. 9th, 2007 04:02 pm (UTC)
Thanks you seem to be the only one here who understands what I'm saying. I've never had a problem with my clients before and always made sure they knew my methods of work and if they refused then I just didn't work with them.

It's easier for me that way that way I don't have to deal with things like this.
(Deleted comment)
celestinaketzia
Dec. 9th, 2007 06:13 am (UTC)
His comments to you were polite and explained his actions---yours bordered on childish 'neener neener' mentality.

Well put. I was thinking along the same lines, but couldn't figure out a way to express it.

This whole ordeal sounds like a gross miscommunication, and though others will definitely disagree, I feel it was a little childish to go and spam his journal about it.
(no subject) - sunhawk - Dec. 9th, 2007 06:13 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 9th, 2007 06:18 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sunhawk - Dec. 9th, 2007 06:27 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Dec. 9th, 2007 06:30 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sunhawk - Dec. 9th, 2007 06:33 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 9th, 2007 06:33 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sunhawk - Dec. 9th, 2007 06:34 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Dec. 9th, 2007 06:36 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 9th, 2007 06:39 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - accomesafterb - Dec. 9th, 2007 07:21 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Dec. 9th, 2007 08:27 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - theblackdragon - Dec. 9th, 2007 02:04 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - borealbobcat - Dec. 9th, 2007 08:11 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - accomesafterb - Dec. 9th, 2007 02:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ebony_chan - Dec. 9th, 2007 04:16 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sunhawk - Dec. 9th, 2007 07:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - snobahr - Jan. 6th, 2008 11:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - starcharmer - Dec. 9th, 2007 07:42 am (UTC) - Expand
Agreed. - shadsdf - Dec. 9th, 2007 03:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ebony_chan - Dec. 9th, 2007 03:58 pm (UTC) - Expand
lilenth
Dec. 9th, 2007 06:13 am (UTC)

To be perfectly honest, I've been seeing your less than stellar business practices for a long time. I think I'd like to give you some advice.

You treat people as if they are all out to rip you off pretty much. All I ever seem to hear out of you is complaints about scams and how people won't pay you what you think you're worth, along with constant blogging for commissions. You don't encourage customers to trust you in return when you treat them like they're all going to steal from you.

We all get customers who jerk us around and who rip us off, the key thing is professional artists don't screw all their customers around over a few ignorant people. Flicking through your blog? Is quite possibly one of the most negative experiences I've ever had. Seriously work on your public face, nobodies saying artists should be sunshine and light, but when you complain that much it seriously looks like you're just trying to get pity commissions. Customers don't care about your issues 90% of the time.

It's healthy to know what the risks are and to take steps to protect yourself but you take it right the way over the line and into downright paranoia at times.

Incidentally I still remember the crap you pulled on several boards including slanging matches with customers, by the way that comes up when your name is googled, way to get yourself a permanent black mark against reputation, any art director googles you? They're not going to be too impressed and I know you want to get into professional art.

Getting onto the whole dredwalker thing, one would ask why on earth you are going out of your way to make it awkward for people to pay you just because you got screwed because you didn't think to get seller protection, an $800 commission and you didn't protect yourself? Then you go and compound an original mistake by taking it out on all your future customers? You have a less than brilliant long term strategy there. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Additionally you're looking pretty bad by slinging insults at dredwalker because the commission went wrong because you both went into it with different expectations. It's not actually unusual for artists to get paid after the fact, especially in the professional leagues. Some private commissioners follow the same rules, yes, he might have been trying to rip you off but he might not have. Whether or not you decided to take a chance and/or work it out, blowing up into the paranoia fit and calling him stuff like a "snake", "jerk-off" and a "scammer" plus going all out on him including calling him a liar because he was apparently afraid that you were going to scam him? Practically guaranteed that there would be a spanner in the works, you might have been able to work it out, that went out the window once you let your temper get the best of you.

While it's bad that he hasn't paid you fully, you have not behaved particularly well either. I'd suggest you go back to business school and take a few remedial lessons followed by anger management before you continue to try and make an impact in the art world, otherwise the only impact you make will be a profoundly negative one.
moonvoice
Dec. 9th, 2007 11:00 am (UTC)
Well said. :)
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 9th, 2007 04:13 pm (UTC) - Expand
nurikochan
Dec. 9th, 2007 08:35 am (UTC)
Actually, I never, ever begin work without 100% of the agreed upon price in my hot little hand, because yes, people like to pay half then run off with the rest of it, thinking that they've gotten a good deal. But following the guy around and harassing him isn't exactly the most professional thing to do. Next time, a SINGLE warning post here, on your journal, and maybe on the DA forums somewhere (I wouldn't know where, I never bother with the DA forums) will be sufficient for warning others without coming off with that distasteful, psycho-stalkerish vibe.

But really, I think that saying that $100 for the drawing is too expensive is out of line. Someone out there was willing to pay that much for the work (er, supposedly... even if he didn't actually pay), which means the work is indeed worth that much. Why not aim high? Then at least you know that the commission is actually worth your time. And for me, given the choice between a measly $30 for a full color, two figure piece and using that time to do the drawings I actually want to do, even if I'm not getting any money for it, then I'd choose the latter.
rupertistheone
Dec. 9th, 2007 08:40 am (UTC)
Somewhat unrelated, I apologize, but it's probably best not to reference a Disney pose for your commission work, or at least state that you did in your description and to your commissioner. I remember drawing that exact pose many years ago from a How To Draw Lion King book. Other than that, I would say it is a rather large watermark, but I do agree that you can still see the image pretty much.
kayjkay
Dec. 9th, 2007 09:48 am (UTC)
Glad I wasn't the only one that saw that.
(no subject) - badkitty - Dec. 9th, 2007 12:21 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ebony_chan - Dec. 9th, 2007 04:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - hellebore - Dec. 9th, 2007 05:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ebony_chan - Dec. 9th, 2007 05:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 9th, 2007 05:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shadsdf - Dec. 9th, 2007 05:45 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - hellebore - Dec. 9th, 2007 08:14 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - hellebore - Dec. 9th, 2007 08:25 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - rupertistheone - Dec. 9th, 2007 05:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ebony_chan - Dec. 9th, 2007 09:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 9th, 2007 09:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ebony_chan - Dec. 9th, 2007 10:49 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 9th, 2007 10:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ebony_chan - Dec. 9th, 2007 11:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 9th, 2007 11:15 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shadsdf - Dec. 9th, 2007 09:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - rupertistheone - Dec. 9th, 2007 09:35 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shadsdf - Dec. 9th, 2007 09:43 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ebony_chan - Dec. 9th, 2007 10:13 pm (UTC) - Expand
oby
Dec. 9th, 2007 03:53 pm (UTC)
"If you were a cab driver and I was a passenger, And you take me to a destination, and a block away from that destination you demand money, telling me we will get there, don’t worry. I would say fuck you take me to the destination, I don’t care how many people screwed you over."

Bad analogy. This guy's actions are the equivalent of a cab driver driving him to the destination, letting him out of the car before payment, and then him saying "Let me just go into the building here and I'll be out later. I'll pay you then."

The commissioner pays when the product is finished, which you've shown it is finished. The fact is, the guy doesn't want to pay you until he receives the finished product and then has no more reason to pay you. In fact, his other actions (not mailing the deposit in a timely manner, suggesting a personal check for the final payment instead of another money order, etc.) shows me that he's simply not wanting to pay you for the finished product.
ebony_chan
Dec. 9th, 2007 04:09 pm (UTC)
I agree with you and the fact is I showed him each step of the work and did whatever changes he wanted. Even showed him the final product with a water mark with graphics and said I'd give it to him once he made the final payment.
(no subject) - starcharmer - Dec. 11th, 2007 05:23 am (UTC) - Expand
chewilicious
Dec. 9th, 2007 03:59 pm (UTC)
If there's anything for artists to "beware" of, it's the off-topic cynicism of the members here, it seems.

People, all she's trying to do is report the problems she's having with a commissioner. If you disagree with her, then do it without insulting her. Posting personal attacks and flaming her art is really low and counterproductive.
lilenth
Dec. 9th, 2007 04:09 pm (UTC)

Seriously just a FYI but I could have hauled out of a lot of stuff on a OP including links to all sorts of stuff she's done to both commissioners, artists and other people.

While it's bad the other guy hasn't paid her, she's well known for being less than professional.
(no subject) - ebony_chan - Dec. 9th, 2007 04:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 9th, 2007 04:21 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ebony_chan - Dec. 9th, 2007 04:26 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 9th, 2007 04:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ebony_chan - Dec. 9th, 2007 04:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 9th, 2007 04:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Dec. 9th, 2007 04:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - chewilicious - Dec. 9th, 2007 09:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 9th, 2007 09:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shadsdf - Dec. 9th, 2007 09:49 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - badkitty - Dec. 9th, 2007 07:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 9th, 2007 07:14 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 9th, 2007 07:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 9th, 2007 09:00 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ebony_chan - Dec. 9th, 2007 09:14 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 9th, 2007 09:34 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ebony_chan - Dec. 9th, 2007 10:20 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 9th, 2007 10:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ebony_chan - Dec. 9th, 2007 10:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 9th, 2007 10:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ebony_chan - Dec. 9th, 2007 11:00 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lilenth - Dec. 9th, 2007 11:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ebony_chan - Dec. 9th, 2007 11:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Dec. 9th, 2007 09:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - ebony_chan - Dec. 9th, 2007 10:22 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - anjel_kitty - Dec. 10th, 2007 04:25 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Dec. 10th, 2007 06:01 am (UTC) - Expand
Well just a side note though - arshes - Dec. 12th, 2007 05:52 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Well just a side note though - spiffystuff - Dec. 14th, 2007 01:46 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Well just a side note though - arshes - Dec. 14th, 2007 02:02 am (UTC) - Expand
rmoorcat
Dec. 9th, 2007 05:39 pm (UTC)
I have two words for you all....escrow service. that along with a contract will save everyone from he said she said BS.
ebony_chan
Dec. 9th, 2007 10:26 pm (UTC)
Thanks for the advice. I know that now. =)
dredwalker
Dec. 10th, 2007 03:02 am (UTC)
Hello everyone
Hello everyone. I have read all your posts. And believe it or not, appreciate them all, even those that didn't see my side of the story. But since there are two sides to every story, allow me to present you these links. And allow me forewarn you, you will need some time off from your busy schedule (at least an hour) to go over it. Of course some of you have made your decision of what type of person I am. And in which all I can say, I can't change your mind.

But if you wish to follow the whole story let's start with this:

http://dredwalker.deviantart.com/journal/15645901/#comments

Here is her counter argument:
http://ebony-chan.deviantart.com/journal/15658247/#comments

Here is how she handles the situation:
http://ebony-chan.deviantart.com/art/DredWalker-s-Dimiri-update-1-70137389

http://ebony-chan.deviantart.com/art/DredWalker-s-Dimiri-Done-70509230

Pssst! I call this part harassment:

http://forum.deviantart.com/jobs/offers/667469/?offset=175#comments

http://forum.deviantart.com/jobs/offers/991826/

http://forum.deviantart.com/jobs/offers/999551/

And finally, my assessment.
http://dredwalker.deviantart.com/journal/15692433/#comments

Now, for those of you who are not trying to read all those posts (And I can understand that) Let's bottom line this:

-- I requested a watermark version, and she refused. My Journal supports this. I never asked her to remove the watermark because I was trying to show that I was legit. But she refused. It was only during the fiasco and because of the fiasco (Which took place 11/21/07) and when I stated I no longer wanted to do anything with the project is when she finally posted the watermark version (That was on 11/23/07). In which case it was too late. Don't take my word for it, go over the links and dates everything was posted.

-- I went out may way to make it easy for her to do her job by submitting a deposit because I liked her work. A show of good faith. But she refused my check?

-- I didn't sign a contract with her. My motherfreakin' bad.

-- Because of the whole fiasco, somehow she doesn't want to accept that I don't want the project. and somehow she can't comprehend that I am not paying for it. It's a principle thing.

-- This isn't about her artwork. This is about how she does business.

-- I never emailed her stating that I couldn't see her work, All I had was to go by was her DA. I never stated that I couldn't see the work because of the watermark because at that time that image was never posted. But don't take my word for it. Look at all the links and the dates everything was posted. You'll see that chronologically her argument is not in sync. Besides that makes no sense, since when does a watermark prevent anyone from seeing an image?

-- If any of you feel I knew all the guidelines, I'm telling you I didn't. Should I take any fault in this? Sure. On top of going out my way to give this artist my $50.00 via money order when I wouldn't have otherwise with another artist because they have Paypal,I shouldn't have assumed that the artist would have refused to give me a watermarked or low res version of what she would have called her finished work regardless if I was satisfied or not with the finished product unless I have given her the rest of the money. Silly me. I mean I have never done that with other artists, but I should have known better with her right?

-- What the hell was wrong with me trying to find other ways to pay her my hard earned money? Like a personal check? Who cares? The artist shouldn't have to make it easy for the customer since the artist has been screwed in the past, right?

As I have mentioned in other posts, decide for yourselves. If you agree, then you agree. If you don't, then you don't.

Hey, in the meantime, I do have other projects coming up. AND I WILL DRAW UP CONTRACTS, OR ALLOW YOU TO DRAW THEM UP, since the stain in my name sustains on a false claim.

I am still looking for artists for a web comic in 2008. 12 issues. email me at dredwalker@yahoo.com for further info.
akeyla
Dec. 10th, 2007 07:52 pm (UTC)
Re: Hello everyone
its good to see you stand your point here too, but I am really not going to dig any deeper because its been chewed upwards and sidewards by now. I believe it was a miscommunication by you both but... you really should bury it...
however I must be frank, had I been betrayed (from the artists side) the same way I may have posted it here (after a while, I usually do count one month until I am really miffed) but not as openly as in every comment/forum post/etc. I would have quite frankly not even published the piece, even less with a "not paid for". That, with all my respect and knowing you for, 6 years?... was not at all professional my dear ebony. And I must say that if I would have considered commissioning you in the future something like this would have definitly stopped me and set you in a not as bright lighting.
Re: Hello everyone - dredwalker - Dec. 10th, 2007 10:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Hello everyone - kerstin_orion - Dec. 12th, 2007 12:32 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Hello everyone - snapesgirl34 - Dec. 12th, 2007 04:39 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Hello everyone - arshes - Dec. 12th, 2007 05:44 am (UTC) - Expand
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