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Aug. 23rd, 2007

Do not accept a commission from vestawolf on LJ, aka vestawolfess on FA. They will not pay you for your efforts.

EDIT Over 3 months since this post and she still hasn't even attempted to contact me. I repeat, do not accept commissions.

Back then, I figured "Hey! It's only $20! That's hella cheap for these badges, why on earth would anyone want to be a jerk and not pay for something so small!".

They commissioned me in early May for a badge which was finished in mid May, shown here : http://www.furaffinity.net/view/549536/ (Top right) After I posted it and messaged her, the following was sent.

"Sent By: Vestawolfess On: May 16th, 2007 07:52

Hi there!

It is BEAUTIFUL!! Absolutely lovely. If it's ok, I'll get payment sent a week from tomorrow...just realized I need to get money on the card which my Paypal account uses. Payday is next Thursday. Thanks so much!!!!!!! *hugs*



Heya! So ya know, I've finished your badge. ^^ It's up on my latest submission.

If it's to your liking, my paypal is zhivagod@gmail.com and the total is $23. I can mail it out as soon as payment clears. ^^"

The date they promised came and went. I left reminders in their comments on FA and LJ, which they seemed to not read. I gave them the benefit of the doubt. After a while, I posted here on artists_beware asking if anyone knew this Vesta in order to ask them if everything was ok with them, perhaps they were kicked out or something and wasn't able to tell me? EDIT:Post is http://community.livejournal.com/artists_beware/145047.html

Nope, they'd uploaded to their FA recently, so no computer access had been ruled out.

I'd kept it very nice and friendly up until now, just leaving happy reminders now and then of what they owed on their FA and LJ. Until yesterday, I was finally getting tired of being nice so I finally let them know that I knew what she was doing and that I was tired of it and that it wasn't fair. I unfortunately forgot to screenshot the comment I left on her LJ, but the basic gist of it was:

"Ok, it's been months, your badge has been printed and packaged and is collecting dust on my dresser. I'm tired of you ignoring me. You complain about your job, but how would you feel if you worked your butt off for 3 hours and then your boss decided that they didn't want to pay you for those 3 hours of work? That's exactly what you're pulling on me and I don't think that's fair."

I checked today, comment deleted. So in a little fit o frustration, I just posted a "Deleting my comment doesn't make the fact that you owe me money go away." and reposted, in part, my original comment to her FA which is a lot harder to just delete and ignore.

In the end, it's only $20 but still, I'm more upset because I just feel that my trust was violated. That sucks more than not having $20. Yes, yes, I KNOW I should ask for money upfront. But when I do, I have a LOT of trouble getting the work done, then I feel terrible about holding someone's money and not giving them the work within a reasonable time frame.

So yeah, don't do art for this person unless you like getting gipped.

EDIT: Well, she's finally responded for the first time in months, claiming harassment. I left a grand total of maybe 8 comments to her LJ since the commission was finished and I suppose she got an admin to delete the comment I left on her FA (Which due to the nature of, I kind of think that she only replied because an admin might've made her respond before they'd delete it).

She left this on my FA:


Posted August 27th, 2007 06:33 PM

You know what? I am in the middle of a move...the second move in a few months. I will pay you when I am not paying rent, for groceries, for plane tickets, and for RL. Spamming my LJ will get you reported to the admins.


Eh... I'm skeptical to believe this (Not that she's moving, but that she'll pay me 'when'). If this was the case, why didn't she come out and just tell me, it would have prevented the 'drama' rather than deleting my reminders that said anything more than 'please e-mail me'? If she had flat out said that she was moving and suggested a date or asked to pay later, I would have more than gladly agreed to wait (ESPECIALLY if she told me before I had done the work. I admit I'm a little sore about that.) She is an artist herself, I kinda figured she'd know better than most that communication is important. x_X

I'll keep you guys posted and rectify this post if she actually comes through on her word this time.
Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.


( 27 comments — Leave a comment )
Aug. 26th, 2007 06:26 am (UTC)
I know this isn't going to make you feel any better about getting burned by vestawolf, but, wow, those are some gorgeous badges! I especially love Yargo; I just want to squeeze 'im! (Or 'er.) I'm sorry that vestawolf didn't feel the need to pay you for such beautiful work. :(
Aug. 26th, 2007 07:24 am (UTC)
I agree. I want to get one next time your badge commissions are open, and I don't even go to cons. I just want my character to look that cool, and then I can, like, put the badge somewhere safe or something. :o

(And I have no problem paying in full upfront!)
Aug. 26th, 2007 03:18 pm (UTC)
I second this. I've never been to a con but even I want one of those badges. They look absolutely gorgeous! And I always pay up front!
Aug. 27th, 2007 05:37 pm (UTC)
Yes, zhivagod's work is gorgeous. If she ever gives you a chance at a commission, take it. You'll be glad you did.

-- A very satisfied customer
Aug. 28th, 2007 03:25 am (UTC)
Sorry I haven't replied yet but I dunno, I was worried it'd seem kind of tacky to go being like "Thanks for the compliments while we're conducting serious internet business! ^^" X3 Thanks though!
Aug. 26th, 2007 06:45 am (UTC)
You're gonna wanna post this in your FA journal too, since that's his hunting grounds for artists to rip off. Who knows, if you hinder his hunt he might even suddenly start replying.
Aug. 26th, 2007 08:08 am (UTC)
Yeah, I kinda did but unfortunatly, I can't post their username on FA because apparently, it's harassment. x_X
Aug. 26th, 2007 08:18 am (UTC)
Even if you cannot post their name on FA you can post something else can't you? Like say the artwork with their name on and a big watermark across it so they can't use it?
Aug. 26th, 2007 09:12 am (UTC)
Just link to the badge.
Aug. 26th, 2007 11:29 am (UTC)
that's bullshit, talk to dragoneer and tell him

1) it is an intimidation method, mild, but it may get them to pay if something WILL be done
2) save the other artists their time and not waste it on this person, that's not harassment, that's good business ethics.
Aug. 27th, 2007 09:19 pm (UTC)
well that's not fair to you at all. It shouldn't be considered harassment if what you're saying about the person is true. :/
Hopefully you're not getting tired of hearing this, cause I can't help saying it: your stuf is just gorgeous. ^_^
Aug. 26th, 2007 11:27 am (UTC)
You have the obvious talent level for this:

Have them pay you first. If they pay and you don't create the badge, then what happens? they ruin your reputation

however, if you do the badge and they don't pay, what happens? they run off free without much care as they can EASILY change their name.
Aug. 27th, 2007 04:14 am (UTC)
No need for reputation ruining, I think; if a problem arises the OP can just refund the up-front cash. They seem together enough not to spend money they haven't finished stuff for!
Aug. 26th, 2007 03:32 pm (UTC)
go half-sies.... they pay half up front ... you do the work, then ship it off after they check it out and mail you the other half of the money... its why i hand out buisness cards and the likes at conventions if i couldnt take any more commishes....

its bait and hook practically...
Aug. 26th, 2007 07:50 pm (UTC)
Sorry to hear about the rough time, i'm having the same problems with Zillford on FA.
Aug. 26th, 2007 10:39 pm (UTC)
if you still have the badge, I'd be be interested in buying it, i hate so much having that sort of thing happen and the art is relaly beautiful. If the commissioner is too much of an idiot to pay you, other people will! and yeah go halfsies and warn people beforehand, i usually do that. I am still working on several tough commissions from almost a year ago. I hope once i get my jobs worked out I can quit once and start focusing on art more.
Aug. 27th, 2007 05:26 pm (UTC)
Re: jeez
Yup, I still have it. I'd need to change the name of course but it's digital so it wouldn't be too difficult.
Sep. 8th, 2007 03:40 pm (UTC)
Re: jeez
neat, well feel free to email: kyrawyvern @gmail.com 3 let me know what you;d like for it, i can easily take the already printed version, i would collect it rather than use it as my own badge, no need for a name change unless you prefer it...
Aug. 27th, 2007 05:35 pm (UTC)
Sorry to hear that you got ripped off.
Aug. 27th, 2007 07:12 pm (UTC)

sorry to hear this, i really adore your work and i love the badge you made me :)

i'm going through similar frustrations with Gypsymoon myself. almost a year, a shitton of promises and no payment for 4 badges.
Aug. 29th, 2007 05:24 pm (UTC)
Wow now that's bad. I do hope you get paid for those at some point or another. I take it it was an order for 4 badges all at once?
Aug. 28th, 2007 05:24 am (UTC)
Seriously. I don't understand why people commission artists when they DON'T have the means of buying it.

This is probably my greatest frustration with furries in general.

I see SO MANY of them being irresponsible with money; ie putting a fursuit before paying for their bills.

And this tactic, of commissioning artists and NOT being able to pay for the work. Hyenafur did the SAME thing to me, and then I saw him out and about, paying other artists for commissions in the meantime. It's really not cool.

Furries wonder why so many GOOD anthro artists stop drawing furries and/or stop doing commissions. If they'd stop dicking us over, maybe we'd be more willing to draw their stupid characters.
Aug. 29th, 2007 05:30 pm (UTC)
It kinda makes me think of the kid with daddy's credit card, they just go "oh..." when they realize that they can't pay for it afterwards and just try to disappear to not have to deal with being such an idiot.

After being a commissioner for a little over a year now, I make very little money but balancing bills and art funds isn't THAT friggin difficult.

But honestly after my little time in the fandom and seeing how much furries whine and bitch about their art. I can't blame any artist for leaving the fandom and trying to better themselves in a less drama-tastic community.

Especially with all the people that just, as you said, jerk them around. Or bitch about the prices being to unreasonable when they should just shutup and look for someone in their price bracket.
Aug. 30th, 2007 05:36 am (UTC)

They don't read, either.

I recently did a "pierced" badge, where I poked holes in the laminated art and fed silver jump rings through to make "real" earrings. It was HARD. I mean, literally, my fiancee and I sat there for hours trying to feed those damn things through.

So when I posted the finished art to FA, someone asked me how much for a badge. I said $40 because it's hard to do, but I can do a non-pierced badge for like $25 or something.

And right away, I got at least three people whining and bitching that $40 was too much for a badge. I felt like screaming at them to actually read what I wrote and that I don't charge that much for a basic badge. >:E

It all goes back to Thumper's wisdom - if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. Griping at me won't bring my prices down. It's not going to kill me to not have a commission - SOMEBODY will pay for the work, and I have a job, so nyeh! :P

I think that, as artists, we should receive no more than what we deserve for our efforts.

Furries. blegh.
Aug. 30th, 2007 05:57 am (UTC)
Hilarious but true, there's no point in whining about an artist prices, all you'll do is look like a dick, piss off the artist as well. If the artist is charging to much then let them find out when they can't a single commission for god knows how long. But just cause someone is to much of a cheapskate, just leaves room for all of us who are willing to pay.
Aug. 30th, 2007 05:38 am (UTC)
(ps - I checked your profile - hay fellow northwesterner! XD I live in Portland)
Aug. 30th, 2007 05:58 am (UTC)
Tigard area of Portland myself actually.
( 27 comments — Leave a comment )


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