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I really don't want to do this

I have been debating on rather or not to actually put this here, but my friend said that I should report this. In the following, I'm not saying you should not commission them, but I'm just upset. I understand the waiting period is different for every artist and I'm fine with that. But after all this I'm not really happy.

I have commissioned 2 people to do commissions for me. Together the money was like maybe $50.00 but still. 

The DA artist: http://kossmoe.deviantart.com/

the first one was on DA and that commission was over 3 months ago. I have part of my commission, but I'm still waiting on another one. After touching basis with the artist she tells me this and it is a quote from a note on DA: 
"That's a good thing too, I tend to forget if commissioners don't remind me (it doesn't help that some just stop replying to my notes :()

Anyways, I'll sketch up your drawing today and send it to you.
:) "

Alright fine. You have been reminded. That was on freakin April 16. I did get a link to the picture. But the freakin picture looks like CRAP. It does. But I'm tried of fighting so I just want the finished piece..... 2 months later and I still don't have it. Fine.

Then I get this note from the artist:
"I do work on your commission at random intervals
I hate college
I hate finals/final papers
I hate fulltime jobs XD
but also, so you know, I'm also working on a free picture of you and Eratu in digital color.
for being so paitent."

Do I have another choice other then being paitent? Not really. I don't know where this person is and if I did  most likely they are not Louisiana so therefore I can not go knock on their door and say, "May I please have my commissions now?" It is nice that this person is doing something free for us, but is it really free after having to wait all this time? So this gives me a slightly bad taste in my mouth about doing business over the 'net.

The FA artist: phobophiliac

So I blow that one off and ask another artist for a commission of two badges. I also asked thif this person could get them done before RCFM. I commissioned this person in early April. This gave them OVER a month to do the badges. That is cool right? NO! I didn't have my badges in time and I still don't have them. Things really looked up for a while with this person. Really they did. I had the lineart to approve before hand... OMG the lineart was great. Then i get a message asking me if I have gotten the badges in the mail yet. Umm, no.

So the artist ask that I give it one more week, fine... That is cool with me. Give it another week and still no badges..................... Can we see this sweet gentle palomino mare slightly turning into a pissed off raging bronco? 

So I note the artist back and let them know that I still don't have the badges. Alright then, here is the note that I got back from them:

"Hey, there. I'm gonna make you the same deal I've had to make a few other people. If the badges don't show up within a week or so, let me know, and I'll make you another set of copies and send them via an independent courier.

It's reasons like this that I keep the lineart and the coloured work on separate pieces of paper. <_<

Cool, I'll have badges....... Wait no I don't. After all of this happened I'm still badgeless from from artist. I'm upset now.

So this brings me to the part where the raging bronco that was once the loving mare is actting like a freakin bull in a china store. Yep I can hear the china falling to the floor and in its wonderful sound of breaking. Wonderful sound. 

So the real deal is this. I don't want to commission anymore artist over the net. This has happened and I just don't want it to happen again to me. So I have a strong feeling that I'll not be commissioning anyone that I don't see normally. In other words all you local furry artists, I'll more then likely be running to you and saying "Will you please do this for me... I have munnies."

And don't get me wrong. I have commissioned some rather AWESOME artists to do pictures for me. The last one I commissioned charged me $10 for a 6 charrie line art. Really it was onlt $7 but I felt bad to be getting a lineart with 6 charries in it for only $7 so I tacked on $3 extra which to me is still a bit cheap.

Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.


( 61 comments — Leave a comment )
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Jun. 21st, 2007 02:44 am (UTC)
Yeah you have to be cautious about commisioning online, but there are good artists out there who do keep up with their commissions and produce a lot of good work. A couple of them are mentioned on here, and some on artistrecommend but yeah that sucks it happened to you. Sometimes you just have to give artists more time. I have had to wait almost 8 months on a commision before.
Jun. 21st, 2007 05:48 am (UTC)
I also agree with artistrecommend as a great place to go with finding artists that are worth doing business with.

You could also look about on FurAffinity, for artists you like the style of that are taking commissions-- if they already have commissions, you could note one of the people a previous commission was done for and ask how well the process went for them with that person. :D

Hope that helps!
(no subject) - xantheequine - Jun. 21st, 2007 11:38 am (UTC) - Expand
Jun. 21st, 2007 02:48 am (UTC)
Okay so...right now, you're just seeming like a very picky and impatient commissioner to me. I've taken longer than 3 months for some things with people and they haven't gotten all snooty with me and started reporting me on this community. That person even has school and a full time job and is making you a two character digital pic in return...my commissioners who wait sometimes get extra icons or a little sketch or something...
zeddish could not help if the mail service lost your badges.

I guess basically what I'm trying to say is thanks for warning me about how impatient and not at all understanding you are as a commissioner.
Jun. 21st, 2007 02:51 am (UTC)
Yeah, that was kind of my thought here too...

It sucks that stuff wasn't done as quickly as this person wanted, but in case one there was no deadline, and in case two it wasn't the artist's fault.
(no subject) - starcharmer - Jun. 21st, 2007 02:53 am (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - xantheequine - Jun. 21st, 2007 11:43 am (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - wolven_remorse - Jun. 21st, 2007 08:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
Jun. 21st, 2007 03:07 am (UTC)
Personally, I think you're jumping the gun complaining about them.
Mail is not under an artists' control. Keep that in mind. I had one postal sending time that took -2 weeks- additional time due to post losing it. It happens.

I'm rather concerned you're jumping the gun against the person you said you dropped only about $50. There's an old saying: You get what you pay for.

I'm a little scatter minded, so bare with me. My concerns with you is that you're reporting an artist because you've waited 3 months. In attempts to make up for your wait, they're doing you a free commission on top of it - And you yourself said you received one of two of the commissions already.

So you complaining and REPORTING her to a place like this where business practices are taken seriously (well as seriously as it can be for the net) is only showing artists to be cautious of you.

This is the question I want to ask, with ANY of the artists, did you request a partial refund? - Most artists who feel like they cannot complete something to satisfaciton, will gladly refund money in order to ensure their clients are happy.

Regardless, you should be more patient and have talked to (at least the first one) more in depth before you decided to post something like this on a artist/commission based forum.

But that's my two cents. It got long winded cause I got side tracked ;)
Jun. 21st, 2007 03:08 am (UTC)
Regarding your impression of the first artist:

Holy crap man. Hold your fucking horses. Xan, you have to understand that this person lives a life. Things get in the way, like homework and full time jobs. Family issues and drama. Believe me, I've been there. A lot of us artists have. Not all of us can work 24/7 on commissions for people on the internet. You also have to understand that online commissions probably isn't Kossmoe's primary source of income. It is most likely a hobby, as it is for many commission artists.

I think Kossmoe is being rather charitable to you despite your impatience. If you thought the picture she showed you was crap, it's YOUR FAULT for not saying so to her. You didn't give her a chance to redraw it to your standards or tell her what's wrong, nor did you tell her "I need this image by this specific time." You didn't give her a deadline. As far as online artists go, most take "no deadline" as "work at your own pace." And that is a reasonable assumption given that this is a hobby for most of us. She's replying to your inquiries and is NOT ignoring you at all. She's even giving you a free digital piece on top of what you paid for.

Explain to me how you're "tired of fighting" if you only contacted her once and she remained friendly and apologetic (based on her reply you posted and the information you've supplied)? Have you already sent her full payment?

Yes it's true she could be a little more professional/organized about your commission, but compared to the bad commission artists this community was made to warn people about, Kossmoe DOES NOT belong here. At all.

What you should do is contact her again and AGREE ON A DEADLINE. It's simple as that. Being slow/busy (while still replying politely) is not grounds for reporting someone. >/

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

As for the other artist, sounds like they're having postal troubles. That's not uncommon unfortunately. I can understand being a little annoyed over this one, especially since they assured you they would be finished and delivered before the con.

However, I don't think an artist should be blamed for shitty postal service in their area. When it comes to snail mail, there's only so much a person can do. Ask them if they sent it UPS. If not, ask them to (if they recolor it again). Don't forget, it's expensive for the artist to send something special delivery.

Did you already send him full payment?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Commissioning people online is always risky business. You accept the risks the minute you and the artist make the deal. You know that now, obviously.

If you sent full payment to these artists and feel burned, then I suggest you take up the good habit of breaking up the payment 50/50. 50% before or when you approve the lineart, and 50% when all is finished. It's reasonable for both you and the artist. That way if something unfortunate happens, neither the artist nor commission are completely ripped off.
Jun. 21st, 2007 03:11 am (UTC)
Here here! Agree with ya
Jun. 21st, 2007 03:19 am (UTC)
Don't go to the ER for a papercut.
I can kind of see why you're upset but from what I have seen, three months is not all that long to wait. Plus, you're getting free art for it. Yes, it is free after waiting three months. Four months. Five months. $50 Dollars, while it is a good lump o' cash, seems like a relatively small amount of money on commissions to get upset over, especially when it isn't really lost now. And if the sketch doesn't look good? Tell the artist. Because in the end you'll end up dissatisfied with the use of your money.

Perhaps you should go back in the community and read the older posts. People have been through MUCH worse in commissions, so feel better eh? Your money isn't lost and you can actually get in touch with the artists. That's a LOT more than people with bad experiences ever get.

I honestly don't even think that this is a big enough deal to be brought out publicly like this. Both have responded to your messages and are compensating you for any loss of time, and in return they get a black mark on their reputations as artists. Lovely. Heck, Kossmo was even honest about how he/she works on the commissions at random. Some would tell you that they're busting their ass on it when really, nothing is happening, to hold off an impatient commissioner. Be glad that you have the honesty and accessibility with the artists you are commissioning that many people do not ever receive. Now had it been twice the time and the artists had dropped off of the face of the earth and stopped contacting you? Fine. Get upset. Post it allwhere.

Also, if you are that displeased with the work done/the time it's taking, you could always talk to the artist about a refund.

My best advice to you can be: next time, have a contract with a DEADLINE signed. For example, it's got to be finished within three months or I receive a refund. Otherwise, how long it takes is within the artist's hands imho :> Honestly, it's like shooting yourself in the foot and then complaining about it.

However, it was nice of you to tip the artists mentioned at the end of your post! Good luck in getting those final images, though I don't think you'll need it.
Jun. 21st, 2007 03:46 am (UTC)
Consider yourself lucky that you got anything. I commissioned astra_valyesky over three years ago for a piece, paid in full (I had done business before with her and had never experienced any trouble, plus she needed the money).

I haven't seen so much as a sketch and she continually fails to answer my requests for a refund. It was a $75.00 commission.
Jun. 21st, 2007 04:06 am (UTC)
She seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth, at least from the places I know to contact her o_O. /side-comment
(no subject) - dinogrrl - Jun. 21st, 2007 04:25 am (UTC) - Expand
Jun. 21st, 2007 04:29 am (UTC)
Three months? Pssh.

At least you got a sketch! College and full-time job? I'd give six months for a piece from someone that busy.

As I like to say: Would you rather get a good product slowly, or a bad product quickly?
Jun. 21st, 2007 05:41 am (UTC)
I completely agree with the general consensus here, that 3 months is NOT that long to wait for a picture. I've had customers wait far longer than that dude. *sigh* Chill please, and allow the artists to finish your shit and get it to you.
Jun. 21st, 2007 05:49 am (UTC)
The long rant could have been neatly summed up in 2 paragraphs. It was hard to read, hard to follow and the random font-changing and font-size changing didn't help much.

You're jumping the gun here, I think. Try and get back in contact with the artist. If they feel as if you are harassing them, however, it could be a reason why you haven't recieved or heard anything. It's been a personal experience of mine that some artists get spooked or scared if threatened or harassed, so just try to be polite. Instead of saying "Where's my stuff?" say "Heya! just checking in, how are things?" try and sound genuinley concerned about whats going on.

I understand you paid them good money, and I hope you get your things, but you came off kinda rude. Not sure if you meant it that way. You want those badges to come in for sure? How about paying for tracking, and insurance? Shipping? Make sure they get to you, don't just sit there and hope it gets to you...make *sure* it does.
Jun. 21st, 2007 07:01 am (UTC)
3 months? You're trying to smear an artist for having to wait three months? D:

I understand that you are dissatisfied, but you HAVE to remember that most, if not 90% of us furry artists are unable to make a living off of our art alone. The furry niche is not a well-paying one. That said, we often do not have time to work on our art every day.

We LIKE to do them, and we like our customers (for the most part), but it is so difficult to do things in a timely manner when we have full-time jobs to contend with. Some of us work two jobs - imagine how hard that would be!

Please, people, don't be so rash to ruin artists who try hard and are willing to compensate for their shortcomings. Remember that as a customer, YOU have a professional image to maintain as well.

...because WE are watching, too.

(Edit: re-posted to fix grammatical error)
Jun. 21st, 2007 11:18 am (UTC)

You're impatient. Especially seeing as both commissions totalled $50, you didn't set any deadline, if you were in a tearing hurry for the artwork why didn't you ask for a deadline? I certainly wouldn't beware an artist based on one impatient commissioner,

The artist can't help if something went wrong in the post, honestly the artist does not have to make you new copies and send them out at his/her own expense, if you wanted to be sure to get your work you should have asked for UPS or registered mail and paid the extra shipping. No beware there either.

Oh and knock off the horse references, you're a human being not an animal. That fact that you're using a computer argues you have hands not hooves, it isn't cute and quite frankly it makes you look more than a little unstable.

"I don't want to commission anymore artist over the net. This has happened and I just don't want it to happen again to me. So I have a strong feeling that I'll not be commissioning anyone that I don't see normally." Thank you, judging from your post here, I wouldn't want any of my online artist friends to be exposed to such an impatient and demanding customer.
Jun. 21st, 2007 09:46 pm (UTC)
without the "I'ma pony" refs, this post would be more coherant and easier to read. And if you don't set a deadline, you're screwed. i can finish things that are commissioned about three months before an event, but the buyer has to tell me as they give me the info when they need it. Otherwise I can't keep track of everything. If you hate the sketch, tell the artist, while i'm a little sensitive about my work, any real professional person will take GOOD critique, such as," you didn't draw my char accuratly," well. if they don't ask for a refund.
Jun. 21st, 2007 12:22 pm (UTC)
Artists generally tend to be slow, understandably in most cases. This is not their career, it tends to be a hobby. I've said it countless times, but it's always worth repeating. Do you homework before ever hiring someone. Find out how they perform, etc etc.

And I never, ever, *EVER* prepay an artist. I don't pre-pay the plumber, or the pest control, I don't pre-pay my energy bills, I don't pre-pay for anything. You work out an agreement.

I've waited as long as 3 - 4 years on a piece. Sometimes it's worth it, sometimes it's not.
Jun. 21st, 2007 12:38 pm (UTC)
Well. There needs to be some money given. I know a lot of artists - including myself- will not work without some money up front.

Frankly, I require payment up front. But then again, I guess I've established enough of a good business reputation I can ask for that.

But don't forget that artists are people too. Payment options are a tricky thing. I've seen a many of a friend - and lots of people here- hurt by people who tempted artists with money, and never pay them after they get a sketch or two and/or the full commission.

But I do say what you're saying..but. Eh. That's my two cents :)
(no subject) - calorath - Jun. 21st, 2007 12:43 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - dinogrrl - Jun. 24th, 2007 10:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
Jun. 21st, 2007 08:24 pm (UTC)
BTW; I think Kossomoe is a very nice person and they are very willing to please their customers. Giving you free art along with your commission is something that most artists wouldn't do, especially after 3 monthes. 3 monthes is nothing and should be expected.

If anything, I believe you are completely overreacting and should cut people some slack.

-- Kiyo --
Jun. 22nd, 2007 12:03 am (UTC)
I can't say much that hasn't already been said.

I think we can all relate to commissioning someone and being incredibly anxious to see the final result. It's something to look forward to, and sometimes impatience gets the best of us.

That said, 3 months, while a long time to wait expectantly, in the big picture isn't long at all. Unless this person is constantly uploading personal artwork and showing no signs of working on your piece, I don't think you can really complain. Especially since the artist is giving you a free piece of artwork. In fact, I'd say you got quite a deal going on for yourself there, so appreciate that.

I'd also hope that next time you think carefully about posting a "beware post" here. Some of us, for one reason or another, withhold the artists' names until we're sure they really belong here. Otherwise a perfectly good artist could end up being smeared. That's something I've tried to be careful with in the past myself.

Despite all that, I hope you get your commissions soon. I'm waiting on some myself, so I know how anxious you must be to see them *excited*.
Jun. 24th, 2007 09:17 pm (UTC)
I hate commenting on specific instances in which I do not know all the details, so I want to avoid talking too much about this particular instance, but I would like to speak generally, on behalf of many artists.

Digital art has done good things and bad things for the art industry, one of the bad being it makes people expect art to be finished in much less time. Oil paintings can sometimes take years...but digital art goes much faster so people sometimes forget to adjust their expectations for different personal working speeds.

I personally am a particularly fast worker. If I have a day to devote to nothing but art, I can sometimes get a commission done in a single day, and have in the past. But for most people, quality art is not something you can just whip out in a few days. Some work faster than others. A long wait time only indicates a problem if the artist is uploading tons of other personal/"fun" art (showing they're not actually working on your piece). But if they're really working on it, and trying it juggle commissions between school and a full-time job, then I'd give them a break.

I don't know if you're an artist as well or just a commissioner, but if only the latter, then that may be part of the issue here. Doing a commission isn't just sitting down, drawing something, and sending it back. It requires thought about poses and techniques, revisions, time away from the piece so you can look at it again with a fresh eye, and large chunks of time in which to actually work. It differs from person to person, but some artists (myself included) don't like sitting down to work on a piece unless they actually know they'll have a few hours to finish a specific part. For example, I have to do the entire sketch in one sitting, or the entire inking job, or the entire flat color job, or the entire shading job. When I start breaking those things up into smaller bits, I tend to get lost in trying to remember what I last did. So if an artist only has a few minutes of free time scattered throughout the day to work on something, chances are they can't use any of them to actually work on the art.

Communication is key, however. I've been waiting for a commission for about 3 months as well. I don't mind the wait but the commissioner has been uploading other art and I haven't heard from them in a while, so I sent them a polite email asking what's up. Sometimes artists do genuinely forget about a commission. I personally think it's good business practice to keep an updated list, and there's not much excuse for forgetting to do something someone paid you for, but if it's an honest mistake then I try not to make a big deal out of it. So if I'm waiting for a while for something, I'll just try reminding the person first to make sure they're actually working on it.

I'd say, if you're able to communicate with the commissioner and they're saying they're still working on it, just hang in there. It's probably just taking them a while to finish. The real concern comes when an artist is not replying to your emails or messages. Obviously if they don't reply immediately, that's not a problem, but if they're consistently ignoring you or not responding after weeks, when it's clear they've been online, then I'd be worried.

Anyway, good luck with whatever direction this goes!
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