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the art or the artist

so I don't mess up anyone else's posts I will come with an inquandry.

I am asking you, the artists beware community this.

even if someone is a good business person, good artist, is it good/ok/right/best to aviod someone or tell others to hate them and their work over their persnality.

take an instance of me and fighting. people don't like my work and myself because I fight, or I tell disney-knock off artists they ""aren't artists"" (aka like a good art school is going to look at your portfolio with awe and amazement when its full of your purple lioness fursona hugging your favorite pokemon)

thus those who've I've "hurt so much" now say I am a sucky artist, with that now I wonder if its the person many like, or buy.

You never like the work without the person and you never hate the work if you love the person. You'd never tell your "soul sibling" that their stuff is bad, if an anime artist and their work looks like the stuff in "Shin Chan", as opposed to wonderfully shaded and thought out mega anime works. You don't do that.

so here I am wondering how you'd take it, if someone were to want to deal with, on a busness sence or when it comes to a theme of "so and so is an art theif you'd be stupid to praise them, all they do is filter copyrighted photos", would you all support "don't like/comission so and so, they are icky poopoo meanie heads lets run them off the intertnets!"

this is artists beware, should you tell others to be warey over somthing like this and support the ideas of "so and so is mean hate them and tell everyone their art sucks lulzz"

ah well, we'll see.
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Comments

( 203 comments — Leave a comment )
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thornwolf
May. 1st, 2007 05:00 pm (UTC)
well..ive never heard of you so your rep is clean as far as I'm concerned, but I know that personally i've been put off by artists because of their personality, but i dont tell people to not commission them because of it, I mean its just one persons opinion and all.

But I do have a list of people I would never do a trade with/commission because theyre such jackasses I'd rather just not deal with them. But do I chide people for sending them money? No. Not at all.
growly
May. 1st, 2007 05:02 pm (UTC)
I am of the firm opinion that bad artwork speaks for itself, and that to say anything bad about a competitor is shameful (this is why I hate commercials!)

If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.
Critique is one thing, but even that should only be given when it is asked for in this fandom (trust me, I've learned this the hard way many times), and even then, you might want to ask "do you want to know what I REALLY think?" before dishing a crit out.
But never say "you are not an artist". That isn't helpful or polite and will make others think you're a total bitch and avoid you.

So no, there is no need to try and badmouth someone if they haven't done anything wrong and just have piss poor art.
joecifur
May. 1st, 2007 05:13 pm (UTC)
I hate to break it to you, but if you act like a jackass, whether it's right or wrong for people to dislike you and spread their opinions about you, you're going to hurt your business.

The solution is pretty easy. Either don't care, or quit acting like a jackass.
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kassichu
May. 1st, 2007 05:19 pm (UTC)
I don't care if you kick puppies while wearing steel-toe boots in your spare time. If I like your art and your business sense is fine-tuned, I'll buy from you.
selunca
May. 1st, 2007 06:14 pm (UTC)
I loled at this comment more then I should have. XD
thaily
May. 1st, 2007 05:33 pm (UTC)
I'll try not to dither about your faulty assumptions.
I'm not entirely sure what you're getting to.
I'm assuming someone is talking shit about you behind your back and you're worried it's going to damage your reputation and cost you customers?

I've had some people badmouth me behind my back, hell there's probably people doing it right now but in general the reputations of these people speak for themselves so I'm not too worried.
I think it helps that I try not to be an ass*. If I think someone's art is too one-sided I don't tell them "like a good art school is going to look at your portfolio with awe and amazement when its full of your purple lioness fursona hugging your favorite pokemon"
I tell them "This is just my personal preference but I'd love to see you tackle different subjects! Have you ever considered drawing X?"
As for bunk accusations of art theft, no accusation is going to go very far without proof, so that's really a non-issue.

If you think your reputation is overshadowing your skill as an artist you might wanna re-examine your behaviour and wonder if your bad reputation is deserved?

I certainly wouldn't commission an artist I knew was an asshole even if he treated his customers like gold. That's just not the sort of person I want to give my money to even if their work makes Dark Natasha's art look like snot flung on canvas.
And though I wouldn't go out of my way to dissuade others to boycott said asshole too, if the subject of that person came up I wouldn't be shy about sharing my personal experiences.

In short, stop being a dick.

*Note that I said "try" ;P
selunca
May. 1st, 2007 06:16 pm (UTC)
Re: I'll try not to dither about your faulty assumptions.
Speaking of reputations; Thaily, you scare me. D: lol.
*runs away before she gets beat by Thaily*
vogeldrache
May. 1st, 2007 05:38 pm (UTC)
I had a hard time understanding what you were saying in most of this post. Lots of run-ons and jumbled thoughts. :x

But I think it's possible to admire someone's art while still disagreeing with their personality. Take __(name)__ for instance. I fervently believe she is a psychological and emotional danger to others as well as herself, and needs serious help. However, I also think half her art is quite impressive. *shrug*

Would I ever do business with her? Absolutely not. Even though I like some of her stuff, I would not choose to support her with my money despite getting something beautiful in return. This is because I disagree with her as a person, not as an artist. I advise my friends to be cautious when dealing with her, but if they honestly like her art, they're going to buy from her no matter my opinion.

As an artist, if I disagree with someone's art, I simply avoid it. That's easy enough. A few of my friends from the old days now draw hardcore anime crap. I really hate it, but that doesn't mean I don't want to talk to them or that I think they're bad people. I would never go around saying "SHE DRAWS CRAPPY ANIMU LET'S ALL HATE HER GRR." Why would anyone say that? D: I simply don't visit their page. *shrug*



As for your "fighting" practices, I think that's kind of rude to randomly show up and publicly comment on people's work so negatively like that, especially if they're not asking for critique. That's not exactly good people skills. Even if they're being stupid and deserve that sort of response, it's not polite at all.

Maybe people just don't like you as a person. Maybe they like your art separately, but they denounce your art anyway as revenge for giving them so much trouble. Sounds like a whole bunch of internet dramaz to me. What did you think was gonna happen when you commented on people's work like that? =/
allytha
May. 1st, 2007 05:39 pm (UTC)
....honestly, if someone goes around bullying other people, they're not as professional as they make themselves out to be. You can't go around with the attitude that people should put up with you because you're talented, organized and promp on the business aspect. So are a lot of other artists, and many of them are nice and polite. Why on earth would someone want to go to the jerk if they can go to someone with a nicer attitude that's just as talented?
kuwaizair
May. 2nd, 2007 06:12 pm (UTC)
is acting like a "teeniebopper" more professional?
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featherlady_jt
May. 1st, 2007 05:48 pm (UTC)
Personality and behavior affects reputation. Reputation affects popularity. Popularity affects sales. It's a cause-and-effect thing, and a matter of professionalism. Your level of courtesy and professionalism will always affect your audience's opinion of you. That opinion will make or break your sales. The simple fact of the matter is, art is one of the biggest word-of-mouth businesses out there- so if one is known for bullying others, that word gets around, patrons' opinions are formed, and it WILL affect that person's business.
bluedrake
May. 1st, 2007 05:52 pm (UTC)
People hate me, im'a jackass, they spread rumors and gossip, and I still get money and commissions. Fuckers.
vogeldrache
May. 1st, 2007 06:03 pm (UTC)
While I disagree with that kind of attitude, you are a good example of what I was talking about in my initial post. Artists like to think internet karma/reputation will take care of the jackass artists, the "bad ones," but that's not how it works at all.

The terrible truth is, if someone honestly likes a person's art, they're going to pay them for it regardless of how much of a douchebag the artist is. Regardless of what other people say and warn and etc. Sometimes the art is more powerful than the omgdramaz.

Artists_Beware, how often do we see posts about some poor kid getting royally screwed over by a well-known artist? How often do we hear that so-and-so has a bad attitude and poor business ethics, and yet people are still shoveling money at them? While reputation is important on the internet, some people, unfortunately, exhibit an immunity to it.

But I will say what you do on the internet means nothing in the real world. In the art industry, clients and bosses will not tolerate a bad attitude. As badass as some people think their art is, if they rub people the wrong way in the industry, they pay for it dearly along the line.
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dinogrrl
May. 1st, 2007 06:01 pm (UTC)
...okay I really have no idea what you just said in your post. Can anyone clarify/translate for me?
celestinaketzia
May. 1st, 2007 06:03 pm (UTC)
Basically, what they said is this:

I'm a jerk to other people. Now other people are saying things about me behind my back. Will this hurt my business?
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celestinaketzia
May. 1st, 2007 06:01 pm (UTC)
There are a few artists that I semi-follow whom have horrible attitudes towards other people. Having opinions on other peoples' drawing style is fine, however how you deliver that opinion matters.

As others have said, the way you act towards other people does affect your sales. There are a few excellent artists out there whom I will never do business with simply because of how they act outside of their commissions.

To me, when it comes to people who act professional in commissions but are jackasses to the general public, it makes me feel like they're putting on a front for the sake of money. I don't like that feeling. Sure it sounds weird, but I'm sure other people feel the same way I do.
kuwaizair
May. 2nd, 2007 06:19 pm (UTC)
so in order to be loved and get comissions I need to brownose, ass-kiss, give gift art, buy from others and endlessly praise the other people and call them my best friends. while acting like some teeniebopper?

because thats how you win.
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selunca
May. 1st, 2007 06:19 pm (UTC)
I know quite a few artists with very shitty reputations, or piss poor attitudes. Sadly, if their art is rocking, people still commissions them, reguardless of the fact that their rewarding bad behavior.

I guess this is the part where I ask you why you think its cool to be a bad-ass? Why is it important to be opinionated in a way thats imature? Etc. etc. There are people who have commented here who I see on many communities, who are opinionated, and hard-asses, but their not exsactly jack-asses about it.

All I want to say is - grow up. If you feel the need to be all bad ass and OMG OPINIONS still, you have alot of matureing to do, and taking commissions might not be a great idea for you at the moment.
banrai
May. 1st, 2007 06:21 pm (UTC)
As long as I've known you, you've had a bad attitude toward others. And I wonder, why do you come to places like this and ask these questions. Of COURSE being a jerk to others is going to hurt your business. No one wants to buy from someone who thinks they're an art god/goddess and stamps on anyone's art that they don't like.

You get commissions by being polite, and having good artist-relations. You get your name out by being friendly, and when people see how friendly you are, they will want to be your friend. That's how you earn a reputation.
banrai
May. 1st, 2007 06:24 pm (UTC)
Case in point: http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Kuwaizair


stop doing all that stuff, and you'll get commissions.
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anjel_kitty
May. 1st, 2007 06:53 pm (UTC)
Personally I think it is rude for you to tell anyone their art "sucks" because you happen to not like their style or think it is a Disney knock off. You should try to be constructive in all your comments about other artists work, and if you've earned a bad reputation for it that is harming your business, serves you right.
Your business is hindered or effected by how you conduct yourself on a personal basis, so if you are rude to other people all the time, that is going to rightfully reflect poorly on you, even if you have a spotless commision record and are an amazing artist.
skulldog
May. 1st, 2007 07:17 pm (UTC)
I can think of a few artists I enjoy the work of, but would never ever even buy a print from them, just due to knowing how horribly they treat other people. But, I wouldn't tell anyone 'don't commission them'. That's up to the person wanting to buy art. My personal beliefs are things I won't force on other folks.

Now, let's get to the point. I've told you time and time again, YOU are the one hurting your own commissioner image. You complain and whine about 'needing commissions', and make off handed reference to wanting to charge people $2,000 for things. You are scaring away people. You need to take a breath, and stop making posts to DA, and other public places with your art, about OMG you NEED commissions.

Costumers don't need sob stories, and they sure as hell don't need smartass comments about wanting $40,000 for full rights.

featherlady_jt
May. 1st, 2007 07:26 pm (UTC)
"
Costumers don't need sob stories..."


You hit on a very important point. Patrons don't want to feel sorry for you. They want you to successful as an artist. They want to own art from those whom they feel have the potential of making something of themselves. If you present yourself as professional and successful, then your chances of becoming successful and maintaining that are MUCH higher. Granted, my genre of artwork is different from what is the main thing here, but I am pretty confident that this is true no matter what fine-art genre you persue.
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