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Premium membership instated on Playmouse

Everyone who has art on Playmouse should read this.

They've recently instated "premium accounts" on Playmouse, they're paid accounts which are required to view the art which was previously freely available. At first I thought artists could determine whether their art is or isn't "premium" material (as in, requiring a paid account to view) but when I tried looking at my own gallery I was informed I needed a premium account for that as well.
So, I need a paid account to view my own art which they are commercially exploiting without prior consent?

I asked about it on the forums but if anyone here knows what the hell is going on, I'd be much obliged.
Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.
https://artistsbeware.info/

Comments

( 55 comments — Leave a comment )
(Deleted comment)
thaily
Apr. 7th, 2007 12:36 am (UTC)
If you go to the main page of your gallery and click "edit images" you can delete the images.

However I would prefer not to, I wanted a site which requires registration and doesn't have pedostuff where I could post my smut for free.
Emphasis on the "for free" bit, they're claiming they'll pay out artists (a very limited percentage under certain conditions) but if I wanted to make money off the stuff in my gallery there I'd make and sell prints of it, then I'd get -all- the money.

But the thing that irks me the most is as Xian says, I didn't agree to commercial exploitation of my work by this site when I signed up for it. And I did read the TOS before I uploaded anything as I always do, it never mentioned anything about paid accounts.
(no subject) - xianjaguar - Apr. 7th, 2007 12:38 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Apr. 7th, 2007 12:41 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - xianjaguar - Apr. 7th, 2007 12:45 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Apr. 7th, 2007 12:45 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - bladespark - Apr. 7th, 2007 12:46 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - xianjaguar - Apr. 7th, 2007 12:51 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - stokerbramwell - Apr. 7th, 2007 01:00 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - stickdevil - Apr. 7th, 2007 02:38 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - eric_hinkle - Apr. 7th, 2007 04:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - stokerbramwell - Apr. 7th, 2007 06:26 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - stokerbramwell - Apr. 7th, 2007 07:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - stokerbramwell - Apr. 7th, 2007 08:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Apr. 7th, 2007 10:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
xianjaguar
Apr. 7th, 2007 12:30 am (UTC)
"Artists Beware" indeed. This violates the terms to which we agreed to when we initially signed up to Playmouse. I can't view my art either. This is 'holding our art hostage' and 'charging people for OUR art, which we did NOT agree to"

I'm VERY mad right now. Thank you for the head's up, Thaily. This is utter bullshit. I can see changing the terms for all new, incoming art, and having people have to sign a form agreeing to the new terms before they upload anything new, but pre-existing art should be 'grandfathered' under the old, free system, unless the artist agrees otherwise. I do not agree to the terms that people (including myself!) must pay to see my art on Playmouse. GRRR.
xianjaguar
Apr. 8th, 2007 04:01 am (UTC)
Update: Well, the mod, Kitfox, was quick to respond to my PM and to delete my art, so kudos for that.
Scratch my comment about the art being held hostage.
If you're an artist there and want your art to be deleted, he'll do it ASAP, (since the system doesn't allow you to do it yourself).

I just hope everything gets sorted out. Really, the artists should have been emailed, but at least he's willing to work with people on a one-on-one basis to fix things at least for them (ie, deleting their art).
bladespark
Apr. 7th, 2007 12:31 am (UTC)
That's insane!
aaaamory
Apr. 7th, 2007 12:32 am (UTC)
They're making money off your art without asking??
thaily
Apr. 7th, 2007 12:37 am (UTC)
Not even an e-mail notification O_o
sephir07h
Apr. 7th, 2007 12:50 am (UTC)
:O Lawsuite!!! Srsly. That is some shady-ass shit right there.
filthy_animal
Apr. 7th, 2007 01:17 am (UTC)
Wow, that's ridiculous.
joecifur
Apr. 7th, 2007 01:29 am (UTC)
Wow, that's really not cool.
giza
Apr. 7th, 2007 02:25 am (UTC)
Software bug?

As a programmer who does lots of web-based work for a living, I'd like to suggest that maybe we should give these folks the benefit of the doubt. Depending on how the system is built, I could see how a bug would make it impossible for artists to view their content.

If that's the case, such a bug obviously should be fixed. :-P
xianjaguar
Apr. 7th, 2007 02:57 am (UTC)
Re: Software bug?
The possibility of a software bug was discussed, but the trouble is that no one was emailed over the site change or sent a new TOS (which has nothing to do with a software bug!)

Either way, bug or no bug, the conditions which we artists had originally agreed to had changed, and that without anyone telling us, which is disturbing. :/
Re: Software bug? - thaily - Apr. 7th, 2007 10:33 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Software bug? - unclekage - Apr. 7th, 2007 12:49 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Software bug? - charix - Apr. 11th, 2007 06:42 am (UTC) - Expand
einsman
Apr. 10th, 2007 02:00 am (UTC)
The way I see it, the site was meant to be free to users. I think it is stupid to just suddenly go, 'hey, we gotta charge!' Either make another pay-to-view website, sell goods, or at least take a damn concensus! hell, maybe someone else could take the site over and pay while keeping the site the same as it is now! I support the artists, I really do, but this is insane for people who just can't afford it!
zorro456
Apr. 10th, 2007 05:01 am (UTC)
As of right now the site is blocking browsing.
kitoth
Apr. 10th, 2007 05:23 am (UTC)
playmouse my thoughts
Well Playmouse is gone, I wish some of you understood why the hell KitFox did what he did, Do you think he can pay to host free pics the rest of his life on his own money alone. He got $0 in donation money for March. Some of you may know and some of you may not, but Kitfox is in deep financial trouble ok. I know because I got to talk to him and become a friend to the person behind the fur. I am shocked he was able to keep the site up as long as he did based on the facts i got from him. Yes he initiated the premium thing, but he was working on tweaking it better till all the complaints from not just artists but from furs who were members for years and just posted for the first time on the forums. basically leechers. You are all blaming him for this when some of you never probably thought just what the hell he is going through to keep a site up. One piece of info i will share with you is that come June or July part 1 of a large medical bill will be arriving at his door.. Maybe if some of you actually tried to help him instead of complaining things would be different.
lilenth
Apr. 10th, 2007 09:21 pm (UTC)
Re: playmouse my thoughts

Judging from what is being said, nobody was given any warning. Also it's illegal to start making profit off an artists work without their permission. The artists are upset because their work is being used to make money and they weren't consulted or told there were financial difficulties.
Re: playmouse my thoughts - kitoth - Apr. 11th, 2007 12:29 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: playmouse my thoughts - swampwulf - Apr. 11th, 2007 06:02 am (UTC) - Expand
ksharra
Apr. 10th, 2007 06:52 am (UTC)
Okay, let me clear this up:

What is happening with Playmouse is that the pageviews are being put on a throttle. You can only view 4 images every 2 hours. The art is still free, but it is limited access. You do NOT have to pay to view the images. All you have to do is wait.

The reason for this is to keep bandwidth down so Kit has to pay less for hosting the site.

And from what I understand, Kit is getting enough flak for all this, plus having to try and figure out how to code everything at the same time. Give it time. He's not "abusing" the art or charging people to view it. He's charging people to access the server's image cache more than four times in a 2-hour span. Your art is still free. And Kit seems a decent fellow, if you contact him directly about a problem, he'll clear it up as best he can.
charix
Apr. 11th, 2007 06:31 am (UTC)
Thank you to the people who have been understanding through this whole mess.
Even the ones who were upset at first but took things in a responsible manner and figured things out.

Good job to all of the over-reacting folks who decided to run around panicking and had no idea what is going on, so assumed the worst without bothering to find out.

Here's the end results...

No warning
----------
Playmouse has forums for all site information. They have been up for the duration of the site. I solicited ideas, many of the solutions came back as "Buy this (spend money) and then try to sell it" and "Get a cheaper server!" (Yeah, like server costs were the only thing).

The idea of downgrading the service level and throttling user views so the site would not exceed the service level was tossed in. Several folks had the brilliant idea that people who contributed to the site could bypass the throttle, since their contribution would cover the extra bandwidth they would use. Other people said "Playmouse should have a premium section for artists to donate art into and people pay to view. Then that money will help support Playmouse."

I didn't like the idea of artists just giving away art for free. I've always been a staunch supporter of artists getting paid for their hard work. These ideas have been discussed for months and I advised people long ago that I would likely do those two things.

Deleting images in public galleries
-----------------------------------
It's not my code. I didn't write the site. I have never had the spare time to fully write an entire site. MANY people suggested I should get somebody else to code. Try #1: Person broke the site beyond repair. Had to restore site code from a backup. Try #2: Person did absolutely nothing for 4 months. Try #3: Person attempted to use access to install malware on the server. Three strikes, idea's out.

Premium Artist Policy was one huge block of unreadable text
-----------------------------------------------------------
Nobody bothered to point out to me that the -USER- side of the site was stripping out certain formatting codes that the admin side left in. At least, nobody bothered to point it out to me until several people came in screaming about how deceptive and evil I was. At least XJ was kinder.

Charging for everybody's art
----------------------------
Because I downgraded my service level on the host, the throttle -HAD- to go in. Allowing people who donated to bypass the throttle made sense.

The throttle system went through several settings changes for the time it was up. The original setting was 24 images in 12 hours. However since making people wait 12 hours was not the goal (Getting them to take a short time-out in the forums or commenting on art or in the chat room and being part of the community instead of just silently leeching and fapping), the settings were changed.

The settings were MIS-Changed at one point. A while later, this error was discovered and it was changed to four every two minutes, then four every one minute.

However...
"I can't even view my own art!" (Bug. It was SUPPOSED to detect the owner and not block them.)

"OMG, SUE SUE SUE SUE!" (Yay. That's the answer to everything, huh?)

"Everything is pay or else now!" (If you look at the most recent art that actually -IS- in the premium section because some artists would like to help and/or make some money from their hard work and see the "Premium Members Only" on those 12 pictures, OBVIOUSLY all the other 10.8k pictures are pay-only also.)

Anyway, I ended up having to fight the fire and comply with several legal threats by disabling the throttle. After all, people demanded it. People were ready to SUE over this.

Exceeded its limited resources in short order and was pulled. The "excessive content" was deleted.

Well, I have site code and the database. :) 10.8k pictures? Gone.

I tried to be nice and allow people who contributed a way around the throttle. I tried to be nice and PAY artists. Hell, I worked damn hard to keep the site up at ALL considering the huge hole it dug me into compiled by the loss of my job.

Remember: There's no such thing as "free". SOMEBODY pays for everything you get for free. Lose that somebody, and you lose the free.
dreams_of_clean
Apr. 11th, 2007 05:55 am (UTC)
Let me get this straight...
Ksharra and Kioth, I have to give you props for trying to show the other side and bring some facts to the table. I definately think it's terrible that people look at the rants and begin to question KitFox as a person. I think I understand, but can you please look at this and tell me if I got this right? Also, just so everyone knows what exactly went on.

- An optional "Premium" service was insitiuted, which would offer exclusive pics and unlimited browsing for those willing to pay. The money would go only to pay for the cost of the site itself.
- Non-premium members could still access all the general art, but only so many pics within a certain amount of time, basically a throttle on browsing. This was done to try and reduce bandwidth costs.
- Both were done with only limited notification to the artists, and the throttle was universally applied to all Playmouse members, be they artists or not.
- As a result, artists suddenly found themselves unable to view their own work without a premium membership, or so it seemed to them. Some threatened legal action, as they thought the work they produced to show for free was being profited off of without their consent.
- In the ensuing bedlam of confusion, accusations, and threats over what was actually being done to the site and with tempers flaring all over the net, KitFox pulled the site entirely with enough damage being done and the financial issue still unresolved.

Feel free to correct me on any or all of these points. I was only a fan of the site, and the only real loss to me is that it was the only link of communication between myself and an artist I had come to think of as a mentor.

charix
Apr. 11th, 2007 06:39 am (UTC)
Re: Let me get this straight...
I'll answer that directly, since I'm the "evil person".

1: Yes, however half the money was slated for the premium artists, not the site.
2: Yes.
3: Yes. Thousands in the hole from the site and the sudden loss of my job required me to take emergency measures. I had to downgrade service on zero notice and the new service level would boot me if I tried to send out THAT many emails.
4: Yes. Yay for coding bugs. Even more yay for not finding out the truth and just creating chaos. And final yay for said chaos taking all of my time away from FIXING anything.
5: I did not pull the site. I was beaten into submission and un-throttled it. The resulting load got it pulled and wiped. The whole file content of the site is gone, only the database remains. That could be considered a good bit of damage, and yes, the financial situation is still unresolved.
Re: Let me get this straight... - dreams_of_clean - Apr. 11th, 2007 06:49 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Let me get this straight... - thaily - Apr. 29th, 2007 08:26 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Let me get this straight... - charix - Apr. 29th, 2007 06:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Let me get this straight... - thaily - May. 2nd, 2007 06:46 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Let me get this straight... - charix - May. 2nd, 2007 06:06 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Let me get this straight... - thaily - May. 2nd, 2007 07:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Let me get this straight... - charix - May. 2nd, 2007 07:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
anjel_kitty
Apr. 11th, 2007 06:59 pm (UTC)
That's messed up. I used to post some of my more adult things on there. Not anymore. I'm not getting any money from it.
charix
Apr. 11th, 2007 11:32 pm (UTC)
If people hadn't complained, you could have gotten money from it.

Regardless, I spent thousands over the years on keeping that site up so everybody could post and view for free. Then when I simply requested that people either slow down and become part of the community instead of just being lurking leeches and take the art, or help support the site if they really insisted on needing to download the whole site in a half hour, people took the wrong ideas, panicked, and now the site is down for good. I'm not paying any more of -MY MONEY- so that 3,000 people or more a month can download everything for free and then still have the gall to complain about things.
(no subject) - anjel_kitty - Apr. 11th, 2007 11:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - charix - Apr. 12th, 2007 12:39 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - anjel_kitty - Apr. 12th, 2007 02:13 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - charix - Apr. 12th, 2007 02:37 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - anjel_kitty - Apr. 12th, 2007 02:58 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - charix - Apr. 12th, 2007 03:07 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - anjel_kitty - Apr. 12th, 2007 03:11 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - swampwulf - May. 10th, 2007 06:32 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - charix - May. 10th, 2007 07:12 am (UTC) - Expand
( 55 comments — Leave a comment )

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