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This is long but bear with me, I'm pretty sure I know that I need to stand firm on this but I have a soft spot for people in trouble and tend to be a doormat so I kinda need an outside opinion to help set me straight.

There's this artist I've been working with recently who is an owner of a closed species I had been wanting. Two months ago this artist posted a couple auction of two characters of their closed species saying if they were auto bought they would do two extra pieces of artwork of them, a "baby" image of them (Think like, puppy form so to speak.) and a full coloured NSFW piece of the two to the buyer's wanting. I auto bought these characters and gave one to my partner and we share the couple. They told me that they would "grind out" the pieces and would have it done soon. I joined their species' Discord as before the auction I caught hold of, they would "preview" their adopts on the species Discord before posting it on FA and I was struggling to catch an opening with ones I liked due to them being pre-claimed before I even saw them so I joined. I wasn't very active and really only talked in chat the first day and ended up quickly muting the server because it was very active. The artist finished the "puppy" photo (chibis really) and sent it to me right away but didn't give me anything related to the full-colour piece.

I waited over a week before deciding to poke them and ask if there was an eta on the NSFW piece since I hadn't heard anything. They told me they were sick and would be catching up on commissions soon. A few days later a close friend of mine was talking about how much she loved the species so I decided to go and commission a custom to give to her. I messaged the artist asking how much a custom would be and they replied with information and telling me they had posted the wip of my other piece in one of the many Discord channels (didn't @ me) so I went to look and saw it was a very rough sketch but I thought nothing of it and promptly paid for a custom which she replied that she would send me a WIP either that night or tomorrow morning which I never did receive.

It wasn't until a few days later that I found out the artist was with child, and at the point of "getting ready to burst" which wouldn't have been a problem but the artist later posted that she would no longer be working on art as she was "too big" to be able to sit around drawing comfortably. I was somewhat concerned as I wish she would have alerted me to this before taking on my commission and I started occasionally keeping an eye on the Discord for updates and she revealed a lot of personal life details and choices, along with some graphic information about her personal life and pregnancy in the Discord publicly and mentioned a lot of things that were setting off red flags such as she was going to refund a lot of old commissions she had because they had been waiting so long that her the work was no longer worth the amount she charged back then as she had "improved in quality". She talked frequently about how she planned on making adopts of the species and there was no mention of either of my commissions. She also was creating bases to sell, put up some ych's as well as posting frequently in the Discord server with a lot of personal doodles.

I messaged her once I saw she was still actively drawing and stated that I didn't really want to bother her after seeing her journal as I know pregnancy can be tough, but after seeing her post more artwork I was wanting to know what was going on. She told me that she was sorry and would send me a wip "this week" (she said this on a Thursday) but had had some personal stuff come up and that she had some financial stuff come up with her partner's job and that she was only doing the artwork to make up for that. I believe this was a lie as they had posted on their Discord channel the day before that they were getting money to buy her baby brother a birthday cake.

I waited until Monday to message her saying that I was messaging her as I did not receive anything for the second time and the next day she posted a journal saying she was currently in labour and that she would keep "us" updated. The next day she posted information about her baby publicly and messaged me to tell me about how she just had her baby and that she had to be there for three days but she would work on my commission in-between because her mother would be helping her.

I had not received any more updates since then and it has sixteen days since then. She was actively chatting in Discord and posting pictures of her baby on both FA and the Discord. I have tried my best to be patient but honestly really didn't want to continue the commission at this point as she seemed to not be stable with deadlines before she even had her child. (Which I understand is a tremendous stress on the body and I understand why she'd need time to recuperate ) but this mixed with her oversharing and attitude towards her commissioners were just too much for me. I messaged her today asking if I could receive a refund as I was no longer comfortable working with her and explained why to her. I offered that she could either refund me the amount for the work owed and I would keep what was already done or that I could give her back the characters to resell and she could give me the entire amount back. She messaged me claiming that her husband had his hours cut and that she had to have a blood transfusion because of haemorrhaging and that she already spent the money and would have no way of refunding me as she was already struggling.

Honestly I really really want to put my foot down and continue to ask for the refund but feel extremely guilty. I know she just had a child and pregnancy is a huge risk but after her flaking with deadlines, attitude about her customers and extremely personal stuff being mentioned in her public Discord I do not feel comfortable continuing with this. I've always seen the outlook on here that an artist should never spend the money until they do the commission and I honestly do know why she accepted my commission when she knew she wouldn't be able to do it and didn't even give me a heads up, and she had plenty of time to do the former commission before this even became an issue to her, and she had lied about being in so much pain she couldn't do artwork before she was in labour as well.

I really need advice here and anything would be appreciated.

Update: Fiance (who is a lot calmer at handling things for me because of my own personal issues) handled the response message for me. We are putting our foot down and have given her to a few days before the buyer's protection ends to refund us, which gives her a little less than four months. She has agreed to do the refund but didn't specify whether she wants to do the "in full" with me returning the characters for her to resell or the partial so I'm assuming she's doing only the partial. Will update if things go smoothly, if not I may have to make this into a full beware. We'll see. Thank you so much for your many kind comments, it gave a lot of clarity and made it easier to stand firm in this decision.

Update 2: The artist chose to resell the characters and has send me a total refund for both the custom and characters. Thank you all for the advice!

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( 42 comments — Leave a comment )
Oct. 27th, 2018 12:26 am (UTC)
Honestly at this point it would probably be best to push for a refund if that's what you want to do. Even if it's in payments. Newborns take a lot of work even in the most organized of houses with people helping the parents. When you see your pieces it will probably be a long time from now.

Normally I'd suggest a deadline and all of that, but given the amount of sleepless nights the parents are about to have ahead of them that's not entirely realistic.
Oct. 27th, 2018 12:37 am (UTC)
Yeah, I was planning on giving her till close till Paypal's 180 date but no later than that because with past commissioning experiences I know that if I let it go past it will purely on good faith if anything gets done.
(no subject) - gatekat - Oct. 27th, 2018 01:05 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - poizenkat - Oct. 27th, 2018 02:16 am (UTC) - Expand
Oct. 27th, 2018 12:50 am (UTC)
Oh man
I understand its frustrating but i dont think "i had a baby and have medical issues relating to it and my husbands hours at work got cut so i cant refund you" is guilt tripping by any means? Shes straight up just telling you she cant refund you I dont know what youre expecting from her here. Just wait until things are more stable for her, having a newborn is a chaotic time especially if she's having medical issues relating to the birth and theyre struggling financially due to cut hours and all.

Also the "I believe her saying she was struggling was a lie because she got her baby brother a birthday cake" is like??? I'm sorry what???? Am i the only one who finds this statement to be absolutely buckwild?? Are you genuinely upset about a child being able to enjoy a birthday cake? Im so confused.

Like im gonna be real here she probably thought she would be able to get the work done but things went over her head considering she birthed like, an whole entire baby? You dont exactly know when youre going to go into labor before it happens lol..... Just be patient and she'll either finish the work when she actually has the time and enegy to do so or she'll refund you when she has the money. At best youre mildly inconvenienced here while she's having the struggle of a lifetime so just have some patience.
Oct. 27th, 2018 01:25 am (UTC)
Re: Oh man
As a person who has severely struggled with funds over the past couple of years, one thing I'll say is, a cake is a luxury. It's not even for the artist' own child, but her brother. Technically speaking, I don't think the sibling is responsible for the funding of the cake, and considering the financial pressure the artist has been claiming to be under, getting up the funds for it was not a smart move when business wise, that money needs to go elsewhere: refunds if not for the new baby. So yes, it's valid to be upset over wasteful spending, if it doesn't seem like it to everyone.

I agree the artist likely thought she could finish the work before the baby came, but she didn't and further made false claims about her inability to work which was proven false. She has yet to fulfill her end of a business transaction, and that is not on the client. The client has every right to their money back on what hasn't been received.
Oct. 27th, 2018 01:41 am (UTC)
Re: Oh man
Please don't trivialize someone wanting to protect their money. I understand life happens. Newborns are like circuses except everyone's exhausted and no one knows when the ride is going to end, but Raven still worked for their money and this is still a business transaction.

Telling your clients your life story is unprofessional. A simple "due to life circumstances I can't refund at this moment" will suffice. From there it's up to the client if they want to issue a chargeback, which is their right, or not.

In this case I suggest that Raven issue the chargeback and move on. While life happens a client shouldn't be forced to stay in a transaction they are no longer comfortable in.
Oct. 27th, 2018 02:15 am (UTC)
Re: Oh man
I cannot have much sympathy for an artist who knew they were pregnant and about to have a baby but still took commissions. The person knew they would not be able to complete them but still took money from people, is that not incredibly irresponsible?
Oct. 27th, 2018 04:59 am (UTC)
Re: Oh man
Um. Are you.. actually serious?

What's going on in the artist's life is not OP's problem, they had a business transaction - OP pays money, artist does the work, boom. That's it.It's not OP's problem whatsoever.

"She probably thought she would be able to get the work done but things went over her head considering she birthed like, an whole entire baby?"
Woops, just popped out this baby without any kind of warning (never mind they were heavily pregnant for months). Yeah, no - not an excuse for holding onto money you're not entitled to.

" Just be patient and she'll either finish the work when she actually has the time and enegy to do so or she'll refund you when she has the money."
That's a really horrible mindset to have for a (once again!) business transaction - 'she'll get round to the work she's *already been paid for* when she has the time and energy to do so? So possibly never? Not only that the artist is going on about making bases, YCHs and so on with a commission queue backed up. Once again - what's going on in the artist's life is not the commissioner's problem, if they're too busy to take commissions, then they shouldn't take commissions. End of.

This is my favourite one:
"At best youre mildly inconvenienced here while she's having the struggle of a lifetime so just have some patience."

You have zero idea of OP's financial status. 'Mildly inconvenienced' is downright insulting, especially without knowing more. It's OP's money, NOT the artist's until the work is done and sent off. The artist not only knew about the 'struggle' she was about to have, she gave no warning or heads up to OP and is now dodging a completely valid request for a refund with a slew of excuses.

OP, do not listen to this person - they don't know what they're talking about. Push for a refund ASAP. This is on the artist 100%, not you.
RE: Oh man - spartanwerewolf - Oct. 27th, 2018 05:51 am (UTC) - Expand
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Re: Oh man - celestinaketzia - Oct. 30th, 2018 11:57 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Oh man - ravensmoon666 - Oct. 31st, 2018 06:34 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
Oct. 27th, 2018 04:27 am (UTC)
The others already gave good opinions.

I would only add that the part about "refunding old commission spots because she has gotten better in quality and is not worth the money"is quite a big red flag to me.

The artist making people wait forever after they have paid, just to decline the job later on to make more money, it's pretty abusive. Those people could have gone to another artist to get their commission instead of waiting for months and get nothing while the artist holds their money.
Oct. 27th, 2018 04:47 am (UTC)
Yeah, that part really shocked me.

I frequently see artists post about increasing prices, but in every last case of that, they assure people in their queue that their work will be completed without additional cost/at the previous price point.
(no subject) - lunahasawa996 - Oct. 27th, 2018 05:44 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ravensmoon666 - Oct. 27th, 2018 12:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
You need to chill - Lustfell Frisk - Oct. 30th, 2018 03:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
mod comment - celestinaketzia - Oct. 30th, 2018 04:58 pm (UTC) - Expand
Comment Deletion - celestinaketzia - Oct. 30th, 2018 05:05 pm (UTC) - Expand
RE: Comment Deletion - Lustfell Frisk - Oct. 30th, 2018 07:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Comment Deletion - celestinaketzia - Oct. 30th, 2018 10:30 pm (UTC) - Expand
RE: Re: Comment Deletion - Lustfell Frisk - Oct. 30th, 2018 10:52 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Comment Deletion - celestinaketzia - Oct. 30th, 2018 11:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
RE: Re: Comment Deletion - Lustfell Frisk - Oct. 31st, 2018 02:36 pm (UTC) - Expand
mod comment - whoop_zi - Oct. 31st, 2018 02:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
RE: Re: Comment Deletion - Lustfell Frisk - Oct. 31st, 2018 02:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
Lustfell Frisk
Oct. 30th, 2018 02:48 pm (UTC)
Have some patients.
Did you get any of the work? If you received any work and request the refund it will refund even the work this new mother DID give you. I think you should give her time cause for what she did give you if you gained the refund through paypal they wont just refund you for what you didnt get they refund the whole amount. You cant give back what she already gave you and with her already struggling with a newborn no less it would be horrible to take the money and what she already gave you. Also you mentioned she bought a birthday cake. But cakes can be pretty cheap and if i had $20 in my bank trust me i would spend half that on a cheap cake for one of my siblings.
(Deleted comment)
Lustfell Frisk
Oct. 30th, 2018 07:46 pm (UTC)
I have heard on inconveinence fees ussualy performed to customers who change there mind about a part and wanting it changed multiple times or someone who tried to spread ill workld or the work before even getting it. Ive even charged one to a buissnes for making me change there product 3 times after saying they confirmed there design. I am not saying they should be charged for annoyance or slander due to wanting the refund im saying they should be charged for posting this after the artist agreed to the refund. If they are already going to get there refund then this post of a "Pregnant artist flaky with deadlines, and guilt tripping when asked for refund." Is just slander. They are getting there money back and all this is just bad words aimed at her. With this much detail its clear who the artist is if you know her.
Re: COLLAPSE - leongon - Oct. 31st, 2018 05:49 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: COLLAPSE - Lustfell Frisk - Oct. 31st, 2018 06:46 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: COLLAPSE - leongon - Oct. 31st, 2018 07:36 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: COLLAPSE - Lustfell Frisk - Oct. 31st, 2018 09:12 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: COLLAPSE - leongon - Oct. 31st, 2018 11:07 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: COLLAPSE - Lustfell Frisk - Oct. 31st, 2018 02:15 pm (UTC) - Expand
mod comment - whoop_zi - Oct. 31st, 2018 02:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
Lustfell Frisk
Oct. 31st, 2018 02:28 pm (UTC)
This is just how I am personaly. I debate around as a hobby I just focused here cause a pregnant artist who had a transfusion and gave birth recently makes me think of a artist I follow and if im correct then I feel like this post is too detailed about the artist. The artist posted her information in her discord not to a public forum. If im correct and recognised the right artist then what stops others from as well. This just makes me feel badly about her but from her history I know she is a good and well kept artist and her reports of refunds from my knowlege includes two people. This person included. I just had a opinion on what to do when this started wich was to give the artist time cause the paypal refund refunds everything not just the money owed back to them from unfinished work. But then seeing comments were this person states whoever this artist is uses people as "banks" to collect money from like loans. That worried me, if she is who im thinking of and im correct then other people that read this and recognize the details might start thinking bad about her like i did, but i drew back for a moment and had to remember the history i knew about the artist and how she has never had something like this pop up before. Others might not have that knowlege tho
RE: Re: COLLAPSE - celestinaketzia - Oct. 31st, 2018 03:21 pm (UTC) - Expand
Oct. 31st, 2018 07:22 pm (UTC)
I can't reply to any of the above because of the majority of it being frozen, but when it comes to Paypal chargebacks (I have had to do them in the past) you can ask for a partial refund and set the amount you want to chargeback, so that would be no issue if she changes her mind and refuses to refund me. I did not say I was going to just shove the characters I bought from her onto her, I gave her the option to take them back and sell them so she would have the money to refund me. (Which, mind you, I actually bought more art of one of the characters) for her own sake, I'm not a mean person who is just going to demand an entire refund when work has already been completed.

I am not trying to slander/ libel her whatsoever. I have always tried to be as nice as I could be and be understanding of her situation but there was just too much piled up. I'm sorry that you may have identified her but unless I completely purged everything I have associated with her, it was inevitable as a lot of people like to try to snoop if there is an advice beware on someone.

I gave as many details as I did so people could understand my reasoning behind it if I just posted "Oh, this pregnant artist just had her baby and it's been two months and I want a refund." I may not have received the proper advice I needed and I really needed an unbiased opinion.

I also have screenshots of everything I mentioned in case she doesn't want to refund me and this has to be escalated into a full beware. (I'm hoping it doesn't come to this.) So, nothing I said above is lying or "slander."

Also, as MortyMaxwell said already. I did not post this after she already agreed to a refund, I posted it before. I would never want to hurt an artist and I only post a full beware if it is absolutely necessary to warn people of what said artist does.
( 42 comments — Leave a comment )


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