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unpaid reference sheet

WHO: Rayd / Hytyle / Aprilycan

WHERE: fur affinity

WHAT: reference sheet

WHEN: July 21 to yesterday morning

EXPLAIN: user posted to FA forums in search of an artist for making a reference sheet. we agreed that I would be paid 60 during the process and remaining 40 upon completion. since being around 60% of the way through, I have been asking for partial payment; user has in response, acted like a victim by me asking for payment, suddenly reversing the affirming that my style works for them, that they like what I'm making, and claiming they hate it and therefore don't need to pay me. they have even said i'm witch hunting them, which is hilarious! since I've given up being paid the rent money i still need and have moved on to simply wanting to warn other people that this person is insincere and dishonest in their dealings.

at first it seemed like a good fit.
I gave them a choice of pose and got started.
I asked them for feedback about the quality of linework and style.
I started in on color and texture, adjusting when they had feedback, but the word "perfect" was thrown around a lot.
Created multiple versions for comparison and customer design choice.
Started in on the extra offers I included - poses with his outfit, offers to illustrate him using magic. Things people usually don't include in one reference sheet package.
Around this time I started asking for payment and realized they most likely weren't planning on paying me.
making a personal post to vent about what happened, they comment to harass me, while blocking me, meaning I technically can't reply to their weird victim posing.

all said, I think some people are just best avoided at times. I don't know what's going on with this person, but I'd glad a platform exists to warn fellow artists. am I sad? yes. can I pay the rent without this income? not yet. am I going to waste my time harassing this person like they're harassing me? definitely not. but now I know I can check for names here if someone I'm working for seems fishy, and hope everyone stays safe out there.
Artist's beware has moved!
Do NOT repost your old bewares. They are being archived.


Aug. 24th, 2018 05:45 pm (UTC)
I'm sorry, I'm not giving in to artist bias, here. I already took this issue to several public forums and I've been reassured that I was in the right multiple times, and frankly I'm more lenient to believing those who can relate to this situation. In fact, I was told to ignore this completely by an ex-FA moderator, but I thought I could change more minds. I regret deleting our conversations because If I had not, I'd have much more solidity to my claims.

I'm following the terms that were written and what we discussed before all of this. I've commissioned 10's of artists multiple times who can vouch for my credibility as a commissioner, and one post isn't going to change that. Anyone outside of AB who believes this one thread without doing some of their own digging or evaluation of the person is unlikely, and I will undoubtedly not be posted here again, as this is the only circumstance ever that I'd do what I did (which I'm still adamant about in my beliefs.)

Again, I'm just following the terms that were written and discussed, and I still don't think I'm in the wrong. I'm just going to continue keep things positive and trustworthy on my end and the community will show me the fruits of my labor. Just because I made one mistake, doesn't mean that artists won't do some of their own research, and if they do, they'll find that I've already commissioned many pieces, multiple being from the same artists. Intimidation isn't a factor in whether or not I'm going to use my only budget to pay for damage control.

(Buuut, yeah. If you're an artist in the future who's reading this, I assure you'll find me to be an honest person if you speak to me about it. I'll give you my honest opinion about this story and I'll show you proof of my credibility.)

My apologies, but I've since taken my money elsewhere with another artist who's going to work with the same instruction, and I'm likely going to be much happier with their work. Thank you all for your time.

Add me on these if you want to contact me any further. (or if you want to slap it on here with a caution label lol.)

Telegram - @KnightOfMarble
Discord - Rayd#2199

Game over. (not sorry for this reference btw.)
Aug. 24th, 2018 06:01 pm (UTC)
I would personally like proof of these people coming forward saying you are in the right as anyone who is an artist or frequent buyer would not agree with you abandoning your responsibilities. As for me I am personally blacklisting you from any sales due to your immaturity to own up to what you need to pay.
Aug. 24th, 2018 06:10 pm (UTC)
Aug. 24th, 2018 06:13 pm (UTC)
Honestly I am seeing more comments that say "you should at least pay something" which i can agree with. Maybe the artist and commissioner can come to some agreement.
Aug. 24th, 2018 06:14 pm (UTC)
So basically QM (that's the former FA mod) said they owe for work completed, but the client is just going to ignore that because it's inconvenient.

Also, he still keeps pushing it was "in the sketching phase" when it was clearly colored with multiple turnarounds. I'm not sure if it's blatant lying, or if the client doesn't know what "sketching phase" entails?
(no subject) - dragontripmon - Aug. 24th, 2018 06:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - shinmaxwell - Aug. 25th, 2018 03:03 am (UTC) - Expand
Aug. 25th, 2018 12:19 am (UTC)
mod comment
Since the FAF thread has been posted here, I'd like to just throw out a precautionary reminder to everyone here to mind Rule 2:

"Do not, in ANY WAY, contact anyone posted to the community if you are not personally involved in the transaction."

If anyone intends to participate in discussion here, do not bring it over to FAF or anywhere else if you are not directly involved in the transaction.
Aug. 24th, 2018 06:05 pm (UTC)
After reading this post you made you really have no conscience at all about what you did. All i can say is your replies here as well as not solving this has really made this beware warranted.
Aug. 24th, 2018 06:19 pm (UTC)
hello excuse me but if you did not like the work you could have told the artist to stop working at any point instead of leaving them to work on a very detailed reference without pay. the artist has shown proof that you gave positive feedback multiple times when you could have just told the artist you were no longer interested and paid for the work already completed on your behalf.

It does not matter if you've been a good commissioner in the past this is good proof that theres a big risk to accepting work from you without taking payment first.

if your only argument is "other people agree with me" but with no proof as to why people agree with you or even any real explanation as to how you're in the right then it's not a very convincing argument.
Aug. 24th, 2018 08:04 pm (UTC)
Your post here does not help your case, honestly. You stopped responding to the artist, refused to pay even the agreed partial cost, and then blocked them before they could even reply to you. None of that says "positive and trustworthy".

Your behavior, however, a great example for why an artist should require upfront payment before doing any work.
Aug. 24th, 2018 08:07 pm (UTC)
Considering your earlier post saying you'd be open to the possibility of you being in the wrong, I think both the tone and content of this post are beyond disappointing.

I get that you had misgivings partway through, and I know it can be difficult when you don't want to disappoint the artist. But the general lack of either honesty (re completion stage of he work) or genuine willingness to ownup and make matter right (instead fishing all over for people to agree with you and validate your desire to wash your hands of the whole thing) solidifies this as a really solid beware against you as a customer.

I'm glad you've had lots of good transactions. Based on just this one and your general attitude, I'd never accept a contract with you. It's not worth being the artist who catches the short end of the 'nah I'm just not feeling it' stick.
Aug. 24th, 2018 08:13 pm (UTC)
You seem to be missing the point: any future artists who read this Beware and your comments won't need your honest opinions because you've admitted to flaking out on an artist who was working in good faith for you. It won't matter why you did it or why you think you're right, since your actions alone are going to make an artist steer clear of you.

You'd also be wise to stop trying to defend yourself here and elsewhere like you're a victim being "witch hunted" or "defamed." The information presented, by your admission, is true. Warning people to steer clear of you for something you say you did is only good sense.

If you want to make things right and salvage your good name, you need to pay the artist fairly for their time. If you're genuinely unsatisfied with the results you're in your right to not seek that artist out again, but that is no excuse to leave them hanging like that.
Aug. 24th, 2018 10:51 pm (UTC)
I can say with full confidence not only would I ever work with you, I'd actively recommend to my friends to blacklist you. All I see is a commissioner who would lie to and mislead me over the entire commission process, only to back out at the eleventh hour with a large paragraph telling me my art is bad and they regret commissioning me and they fear my emotional response to being told this and they refuse to pay me before blocking me, and then accusing me of harassment and defamation when I tell my side of the story, while mispainting the scenario to others claiming they """"""respectfully"""""" discussed things with me and "all for paying some sort of compensation for the artist's time if they hadn't been so adamant in escalating things as quickly as they did" (as though I would have any choice in the matter if I was gotdamn blocked by you) but now you just won't and it's my own fault.

It doesn't matter how many good past commissions you've had with artists. Next time could be another bad one, and it could be with me, and I'll be stiffed $60 worth of work, and all your other happy artists aren't going to do much for me so why on earth would I ever take that gamble?

Great to see how open you are to the possibility you may be wrong! I really respect your open-mindedness and willing to accept the logic dozens of people with objective opinions are trying to tell you by the way! You're a champ and a hero.
Aug. 24th, 2018 11:35 pm (UTC)
Your past experiences with artist may have been excellent and marked you as a wonderful client but this situation and your responses puts more weight on your personality when things go wrong. You don't feel you're in the wrong at all for having someone continue working on art that you hated, only giving positive feedback when they showed you progress images. You don't feel in the wrong for not paying them for the hours of work they put in before blocking them without discussing some type of solution because of your "fear". This is what artists are going to see, how you handle these situations, how you play it off and leave "lol whatever" responses like here now. It shows a lot of immaturity and an inability to resolve transactions that may go wrong. It's not a good look or funny and I would not blame others for not wanting to work with you.
Aug. 25th, 2018 07:44 am (UTC)
Bruh, you do know that we can see you lying? Like, we can literally see multiple coloured turnarounds and you straight up telling the artist you didn't have the money in the main post?

Like why the fuck you lyin, son?

We can very clearly see that you got a finished reference sheet out of it: https://www.furaffinity.net/full/28421705/
Aug. 27th, 2018 05:16 am (UTC)
Wondering why this was posted without a HUGE "unpaid" watermark on it. :/


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