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Looking For Advice!

First of all, hello! I haven't had to post here in a while, which is good!

I come to you now, however, with a problem-

I recently purchased an adopt from an artist (the auction was hosted on both DA and FA). The artist had set the auction/offer end time as 11:59- however they did not specify whether this was based off of server time/CST/PST/etc.

I commented with an AB on FA.

The artist commented back saying that I had won, and I sent the payment their way.



However, a few hours after collecting payment, they noted me- saying that they had broken their own end time on the auction, and that they'd like to refund me and reclaim the adopt so as to sell it to the next highest bidder.


Who is in the right here, in this case? I can understand the frustration of the other bidder, but I'm equally frustrated now as I was told that I won and had already paid.





Also- I've already drawn the character (as well as started writing/doing some headcanon for her). If she's taken back (even with a refund), am I entitled to any form of compensation for the time I have now invested in her?

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Comments

( 28 comments — Leave a comment )
slinkslowdown
Jul. 31st, 2018 07:50 pm (UTC)
Why... would it matter when you bid, though? Isn't AB the auto-buy amount?

Every auction I've ever seen ends as soon as someone auto-buys, as that's the maximum amount the seller has set for the auction. There would be no point in letting the clock run down when the maximum has been reached.
rai_say
Jul. 31st, 2018 08:00 pm (UTC)
The issue is that they're saying now that I actually placed my AB *after* the time that the auction was supposed to end.



Which... I guess I could live with that, if the sale hadn't already been finalized.

But, legally speaking (mind you I am not a legal expert nor do I claim to be)- our contract has been fulfilled. I made an offer, they accepted, I paid- from what I *do* understand about law, this is cut and dry/said and done- they can't renege on the deal after it's been completed?
slinkslowdown
Jul. 31st, 2018 08:05 pm (UTC)
Okay, I was reading it as they had ended it too early, not that it had gone past the ending time.
snowhawk
Jul. 31st, 2018 08:01 pm (UTC)
Yeah that's what it says to me. Auto-buy means it ends when that AB is made.

Also, hosting the auction on both sites is kinda shady. It's one thing if you link and go "hey, I'm hosting this over here!" and don't take bids.

If you want to keep the adopt, you are in the clear to, imo. But the artist sounds like they might not be easiest to deal with, so doing so might not be worth the hassle.
likeshine
Aug. 1st, 2018 05:01 pm (UTC)

I think advertising on multiple sites is a pretty standard thing, I've seen it done many times. Usually the artist keeps the listing updated.
snowhawk
Aug. 1st, 2018 05:38 pm (UTC)
Advertising, sure. That's fine, turn comments off and leave a link to the actual listing. But hosting, as the OP mentions the artist did? Nah, really sketch.

Like, if you go to an actual auction site, like eBay, you can (and will) be banned if you're caught trying to sell the same thing in multiple places, even on the same site. I had to be SUPER careful when I was listing multiple auctions of the same -type- (MLP lots were the last things I sold), to make sure the pictures and descriptions were super clear that the items in the lots were different.
likeshine
Aug. 2nd, 2018 07:34 pm (UTC)

Oh, I've seen people holding an auction on FA/DA simultaneously and advertising on Twitter. I didn't know that was sketchy!
rendrassa
Jul. 31st, 2018 09:43 pm (UTC)
Huh. Difficult. Considering they already accepted payment, they should stick with that and offer an apology and make up for this to the other bidder. You might be able to work things out with the other bidder, explain the situation and offer the AB amount to them after they pay the artist? That might not work since most artists make it a restriction to not resale the adopt for more than purchased, though.
DespyBrawks
Jul. 31st, 2018 10:09 pm (UTC)
Its my opinion that since the transaction has already been completed, the artist has no right to force you to give the character back. Itd be one thing if they realized the mistske right away, but they transferred over rights to the character as soon as you paid for it and they sent it over. I'd say you *can* give it back if you want to, but its your character now imo so you dont have to. Its up to the artist to figure something out with the other bidder if they wish to. Their mistake isnt on you.
rai_say
Aug. 1st, 2018 06:33 am (UTC)
That was kinda my thought-

I've bought lots of stuff over the years, and usually one of two things happens-

a)"You win! Wham, bam, thanks for the cash- go have fun!"

or

b)"Aw, sorry fam. You didn't win, better luck next time"

And in either case, I move on with my life, NBD.



If the artist had caught the mix-up before I paid (if their initial comment to me had been "Hey, sorry- you bid outside of the end time." I would have been fine with it, I would have just moved on). I've had that happen before and it's never been an issue.

It's the fact that we had completed our transaction and then after the fact, this happened.
takesu
Aug. 1st, 2018 12:25 am (UTC)
It's the artist's fault for accidentally giving you the adopt. You can refuse or take back the refund if you wish. As for the artist, they should either make an make-up adopt for you or for the "winner".
gatekat
Aug. 1st, 2018 01:05 am (UTC)
That should be a lesson to the artist not to give a 24 hour end time window.

The transaction is complete. They have no business asking for it back.

That said if they are willing to lose money on this to appease the other bidder I would expect major drama from that other bidder towards both you and the artist if they don't get it.

It's up to you how much you are willing to weather over keeping that adopt.

EDIT: No you are not entitled to anything for your effort. No more than if you'd begun before paying or as fanfic.

Edited at 2018-08-01 01:06 am (UTC)
likeshine
Aug. 1st, 2018 05:02 pm (UTC)

I'd just say no, you won and paid and art was already created. It's not your fault, this is on them.
ravensmoon666
Aug. 1st, 2018 09:44 pm (UTC)
In my honest opinion (and from what I've seen on past bewares) you should reply politely but decline. I'd tell them what you wrote here about how you already paid and that you've already started growing an attachment to the character and have already put your own efforts in to produce artwork of said character. If they try force refunding you, send it back and give them a note along the lines of

"I'm sorry, but I've already told you that I do not want to give up the character that I legally bought. If the money is sent back again I will be taking it as a donation and will be keeping the product purchased as well."

It is not your responsibility to atone for their mistakes.
celestinaketzia
Aug. 2nd, 2018 08:59 pm (UTC)
I came here to say something to this effect, but you beat me to it. I'd go with Raven's approach.
metallik_hasse
Aug. 15th, 2018 02:18 pm (UTC)
I'd like to agree with Raven, as well. This response is consise and gives no room for negotiation.
shinmaxwell
Aug. 2nd, 2018 08:29 pm (UTC)
To me, you now own the character. legally, as you paid for it. It's not up to you to fix their mistake, and they can't demand/ask you to return it, to me, since you paid as you should, and were given the character as a result.

Like Raven said, politely respond and decline. To me, the character is legally and rightfully yours now.
lunahasawa996
Aug. 3rd, 2018 10:21 pm (UTC)
This is on them for not paying attention. You are not held responsible for theur mistakes and i personally think since they took the money and handed over rights, they shouldn't be coming after you so they can fix their goof.

I've had peoole bid on YCH after the end date, and being as they were the only bidder still gave it to them.

Plus having people host the same art for auction on two different sites doesnt fly with me. I placed a bid on FA, but was told my bid was too small because of the DA bid they failed to comment on being placed. I've even had AB's been revoked because the AB was placed on the other site first, yet the auction was still open on the post i commented on.
venatorrooc
Aug. 7th, 2018 05:33 pm (UTC)
Hey, any update to this? I'm really curious to know how this ended (if it ended, that is).
rai_say
Aug. 7th, 2018 05:45 pm (UTC)
Oh, hey, thanks for asking! (I wasnt aware people would be wanting a further update).

About a week and a half ago I had put my foot down (politely- I'm absolutely more than willing to screenshot my notes as proof if anyone needs them- obvs with the artist's name edited out for the time being).

They didnt give me a reply (though they read it).

I shot them a note three(?) (it might have been more or less- I work overnights so my sense of what day it is is kinda screwy). I basically asked them if we could consider this matter resolved or not (as, honestly, stressful stuff like this makes me a bit anxious and I just want to know if we're done or not). If the matter is resolved, I would rather like to get my file (yes, you read that correctly, they still havent sent me an official file for the adopt). I *do* have the files nabbed from the original auction post, and if those files are the fullsize I'm fine with nabbing them from there, but it'd be nice to get an answer on whether those are the fullsize or not.

Last I had checked, they hadn't read the latest note.

SO BASICALLY- its kinda all up in the air at the moment, and admittedly I'm a little bit upset as (in some ways) this has ruined the allure of the adopt for me? I still love the design, but atm its kinda leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Im hoping to be able to get some art of the design soon (which hopefully will fix my feelings a bit)- but I cant really do that until a)I have the main file and b)until the situation is over. I don't really feel comfortable posting the design until I know for sure that this is over and done with.

TBH I'd consider posting a beware, but at this point I dont feel that it's quite beware-worthy yet? The artist *has* been polite in our dealings and they haven't tried to force anything (too much at least)- but the whole situation has just kinda been a clusterf**k.
lunahasawa996
Aug. 7th, 2018 08:37 pm (UTC)
If they are starting tp ignore you, it is sending quite a few red flags to me. You habe no idea if they have gone around and given the other persob the adopt instead out of spite/unprofessiinalism ir if they flat out are just being rather rude about the whole situation. They sold the adopt to you, and now are witholding your purchase even though you paid for it already, which is downright bad business practicies.

Honestly i would write a beware because the whole situation is beware worthy. Especially given that they arw now ignoring you.
rendrassa
Aug. 8th, 2018 02:43 am (UTC)
Adding to this advice, perhaps look into asking the "winner" if they've heard from the artist. Just explain you'd paid the autobuy and the artist has claimed it's invalid and you're trying to find out what's going since the artist hasn't gotten back to you about it.
rai_say
Aug. 8th, 2018 01:58 pm (UTC)
Replying to your comment just to make this easier- hopefully other folks will see it as well.

Long story short- DA is the artist's main account (it seems that, honestly, they rarely use FA). I actually had tracked down their FA through another artist they're friends with (who I know the DA of).

From what I can see, the artist hadn't been very active due to a broken charger, and had only just gotten the situation resolved yesterday.

That being said, they still haven't replied to my note (it hasn't been read, either)- I'm loosely assuming they just haven't been on FA (or, if they have, they're ignoring me). I generally always try to give the benefit of the doubt/lean towards innocence.

The only issue for me- I don't have a DA (I haven't had one for a good few years now- and I refuse to make another tbh, as I have some issues with the site's policies)- so unfortunately I have no way to contact the artist through there, nor contact the other bidder (if they would even talk to me).

On a positive note, it does not appear that they've given the adopt to the other bidder (although it's hard to say- the other bidder could have it and haven't posted it yet, or simply have posted it somewhere else).

Hoping this will be resolved soon as (honestly) I don't want to have to do a beware:(
venatorrooc
Aug. 9th, 2018 12:24 am (UTC)
Ahh this is such a messy situation and I'm so sorry you have to go through this ):

Hopefully they'll get back to you if that was what was holding them up. With any luck it'll be settled professionally (in your favor, as their mistake is not yours to fix here).

Seriously good luck and I for one would love an update if/when they get back to you!
rendrassa
Aug. 9th, 2018 07:37 am (UTC)
Seconding the desire for a further update.
Deadwoof
Aug. 8th, 2018 12:52 pm (UTC)
Ouch, I say contact the former highest bidder, and see where it takes you from there. If the former highest bidder suddenly got the character, I say go for an immediate beware.
rai_say
Aug. 10th, 2018 08:06 pm (UTC)
Shooting an update out (not sure if everyone will see it- should I add it on as an edit to the original post)?

The artist did finally get back to me in agreement that the situation was resolved- which is a huge load off of my shoulders- now I've just got my fingers crossed that it *stays* resolved.

Thank you to everyone for your advice!
metallik_hasse
Aug. 15th, 2018 02:20 pm (UTC)
Oops, looks like my previous reply is moot!

Glad it was amicably solved regardless. :)
( 28 comments — Leave a comment )

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