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Beware: TEIL

Final Edit 7/10: I've received my refund and I can only hope that TEIL continues to make changes in her business for the better and get her workload fixed. Through a few back and forth notes I've given her a few cautionary tips on how to not overwork herself (based on personal anecdata) while still getting what she needs done. She sounds genuinely sorry for letting her queue get so massive and untamed and I think honestly needs someone with good organization skills to be her art manager so this doesn't happen again. I'm hoping her roommates will fill this position. I also noticed a handful of old commissions on the queue are either getting done or are at the very least being updated.

Important edit 7/5: Please if you're reading this, do NOT associate TEIL's old partner nor their collab work with her to this beware, or any future one. PebblesRaven has no involvement in any of this anymore and has even replied to the beware explaining her side of the story and how she no longer has access to the work. If you have a collab piece owed, it's all 100% on TEIL to finish.

Who: TEIL/Teileafuu/Teileaf (possibly among others?). Used to be a solo account, became a collab account with Teileaf's partner, then solo again, before I think being a joint account with somebody new? I've lost track.
Where: FA (NSFW) Twitch (Nsfw? It's used for streaming) Picarto (edited in link on 6/30 because she's using this again instead of twitch, as well as the fact she's taken the twitch link off of her profile. Leaving the twitch link for reference.
What: $80 YCH (nsfw, right-side)
When: October 29th, 2017 - ongoing
Proof: https://imgur.com/a/xdjvBHi (NSFW). This is posted in order of the explanation and can be read alongside for clarification.
Explain:

I had recently followed TEIL for their work, already impressed with their coloring, poses and scenery (where applicable). I eventually found a YCH from them that interested me enough that I wanted to get of my OC. Details were exchanged, and I was put on the queue. The queue had an expected two month turnaround, which was super understandable because despite how fast they seemed to work from the daily output of art, there was a fair amount of people on the list.

During this time they also had outfit chibis that were same day, in stream commissions. I got one of those as well, of the same OC, and got the art the next day (as it was late and I was one of the last on the list. Still super prompt!) Happy with the result, I couldn't wait to see a WIP of the YCH.

A little while later, at the very start of November, I noticed there was a slight mixup with mine and another person's spot on TEIL's trello, so I sent them a note about it (I was apologizing for the nudging because I had pointed things about my character out in the outfit chibi stream and I felt bad for coming off as pushy).

About two months later I sent a note, asking if there was any progress to my commission. I should point out that, despite the journals having since been deleted, TEIL and her partner had some medical/personal issues and had let people know by means of a journal. The timing of my note was really abysmal because I had pressed send, then noticed that maybe a few minutes ago there was a new journal about a family issue. Of course I apologized for the bad timing and didn't mean to add stress to it, I had just wanted an update.

Another month, another note, this time with concern because I noticed YCHs being done out of order. I saw the note read, but not replied to, so I bumped it and got a response.

Two months later (no WIP given), there was a Refund list put out. This was something that TEIL and her partner had been talking about, and I had been under the impression that, with no WIP or conversation from TEIL, I'd be on that refund list. I wasn't, but the person who had bought the other YCH in the submission was. Curious, I asked about it. I sort of bungled up my words and confused TEIL, so I clarified what I meant.

They replied with a WIP of my character, but...except for the general features, the design was incredibly off. Even after I pointed the mistakes out, they had told me I never mentioned key details when I did and this frustrated me. Needless to say I was not entirely impressed with the lack of reading comprehension, and coupled with the trello mixup I felt like I wasn't being listened to. I should have asked to been put on the refund list at this point, but I was given a revised WIP with (mostly) correct features after and left it alone.

When the Paypal's 180 claim was coming up I had decided to send another note, asking about an update. A few weeks earlier, TEIL mentioned the threat of eviction and had been doing emergency commissions to make up the rent they needed. I had specifically waited until things died down to ask them, so as not to create another new year's note incident, but it was implied my asking was stressful. They did promise another WIP would be offered "soon."

A month later I ask for a refund.

I never mention this to them but between the last note to them and the note asking for a refund, I had lost my job. Outside of the paypal window officially, I wouldn't be able to file a claim and had to rely on faith that they would deliver, especially because things seemed to have turned around for TEIL money-wise and they were earning a lot of clients, both repeat and new, from their in-stream same-day commissions. This is just clarification for where I say previously I would rather wait for the art, then ask for a refund later.

After a while, TEIL's journals are all deleted, including the one with the link to the google doc of refunds. I ask about it, and they tell me they didn't see my name on the refund list, but they've added me. This doesn't prove to reassure me about the status of my refund or if I'll ever see it. I didn't respond to it, and even mulled over whether or not I should post this beware, but I'm overall frustrated with everything that's happened so far.

I still love TEIL's art but I can't say the same about their work ethic. I don't have record of the advice they were given because of the many journal deletions, but I recall someone suggesting they try to make their debt up through selling bases and adopts, so they aren't constantly adding to their commission queue. The advice, as far as I'm aware, was received positively, but has yet to be (consistently) implemented in favor of same-day/next-day YCHs, illustrations and Chibis.

update 7/3: https://i.imgur.com/BIrqjy2.png a message from "The Admins" (not FA's admins, but some of TEIL's friends who are going to handle communication between her and her clients).

o...kay. I don't have much faith in this, and it sounds INCREDIBLY sketchy, but if it gets me my refund then great! An art manager sounds like something she needs.

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Comments

( 26 comments — Leave a comment )
celestinaketzia
Jun. 22nd, 2018 06:56 pm (UTC)
Unfortunately, I had a similar experience and had to issue a chargeback to get my refund. I was on Teil's Polaroid list, was moved to the refund list, and then just didn't get my refund. I was too uncomfortable letting my 180 days elapse.

Teil has a wealth of skill, but it's very unfortunate they're in this large commission hole. The last I peeked onto their queue it was staggering.
cosmicing
Jun. 23rd, 2018 12:35 am (UTC)
That's a shame to hear. Was the chargeback taken well?

Had I not gotten that WIP and revision I would have asked to have been put on the refund list and probably gone the same route you did. I'm kicking myself over letting it go past 180 days.
celestinaketzia
Jun. 23rd, 2018 09:01 pm (UTC)
She actually never said anything directly to me, which I found strange. I can understand given that her queue is massive, and I'm sure she's got plenty of clients asking for work.
cosmicing
Jun. 24th, 2018 02:37 pm (UTC)
Pardon for not linking (I will if it's considered relevant but it does have a bunch of usernames of unrelated parties) but I managed to find the refund list in my browser history.

Celestina is your main, correct? Because if so, you're listed as still owed a refund. :/ The lack of organization worries me immensely, you've already gotten your (forced) refund, and from what I've written in the beware it's almost as if important information is an out of sight, out of mind situation. My username was added at the bottom, certainly, so it's not a matter of "This just hasn't been updated in a while."
celestinaketzia
Jun. 24th, 2018 06:38 pm (UTC)
Wow! I can't believe I'm still on there. I even made it clear who I was in my note.

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this. It appears that it'll be a long while yet that the refund list is actually going to be touched.
teekchan
Jun. 25th, 2018 04:12 pm (UTC)
This was extremely common for her. I am no longer friends with her over her work ethic and owed refund list (as it had started to affect my artists name). It is sad to hear that she hasnt changed her ways, as I really though she would have, as it seemed very accidental at the time.
cosmicing
Jun. 25th, 2018 05:07 pm (UTC)
What I don't seem to understand is how she has the energy to take illustrations and detailed half/fullbody works and put them out 24 hours later but her queue is still untouched (or even added to). That's the ultimate thing that made me ask for a refund, was seeing 24hr turnarounds of YCHs the same quality of what I had paid for being put out before previously owed work.

Short of harassing her until I get a refund (which I'm not going to do) I don't know where to go from here. I called my bank and their chargeback policy is even less forgiving than paypal's (which since updating to 180 days is understanding). So I'm basically at her mercy with this.
lilchibimonster
Jun. 29th, 2018 11:12 am (UTC)
I love Teil's work but whenever I see her open for more commission and finish them before her queue, I can't help but feel horrible for the other's that has been waiting months for their work to be done and I simply had to unwatch her.

It's a shame though.
dykegrenadier
Jun. 30th, 2018 06:03 am (UTC)
I had commissioned Tiel for an IA commission last year and she left me waiting for three months without any communication. Every time I visited her stream, I saw her working on commissions or playing minecraft, and when I checked her queue, my IA commission kept on being pushed further and further away.

I eventually asked her for a refund when I got sick and tired of waiting for her to at least start my IA, but kept being pushed further back in her trello, and on top of it, open up for YCH's, adopts, and other quick cash grabs. It's bad business practice, and it's infuriating to deal with.

I'm sorry you also went through this, and with an even more expensive and "permanent" slot. I hope things get resolved for you. If not, you can always issue a charge-back with your bank if you did the payment from a bank account or a debit card and not through paypal funds.
dykegrenadier
Jun. 30th, 2018 06:06 am (UTC)
...and I just read that your bank won't do the charge back. Have you tried going in in person? That usually seems to work a lot better than doing it over the phone. And have you tried contacting paypal directly via phone? Because they will suspend or even end a merchant account if they're not delivering product.

On top of that, I would probably report her to the mods on FA, since people who have gigantic queues have been known to have their accounts suspended for doing that sort of nonsense.
cosmicing
Jun. 30th, 2018 03:22 pm (UTC)
Actually my bank is situated in a different state entirely, and the only reason I haven't switched to a local credit union is because of the customer service. The representative I spoke to was very willing to work with the issue but the policy came from their ACH rules. She suggested (and what seems to be advice also given on the internet over these sorts of things) that if I needed to in the future to do business with a credit card as they have different policies regarding chargebacks. Since I did my payment directly thru the credit union, they could only do so much for me.

As for the IA, that's upsetting to hear. Isn't the point of Iron Artist commissions to test your skills and push yourself, like an exercise in stamina?
demonlord261
Jun. 30th, 2018 01:57 pm (UTC)
Similar scenario
I had a similar issue, i was about to write up a similar beware

I commissioned them for a comic page back in december, they promised a sketch up the next month. I got nothing, they took on more stuff, i even got one of there iron artists slot (which i was lucky enough to actually recieve the art for)

I checked in once a month for any sort of progress as they continued to take on and crank out other things. I got nothing I saw the refund list, I wasnt on it. (Red flag number 1)So i checked in again they said they would be working on it soon. A month went by and still nothing.

My paypal was nearing that 180 days, so I decided to request to be on the refund list, I recieve a note back asking what the item was i was being refunded for, they said they had me marked down as everything done.(red flag number 2) a month goes by and the refund list hasnt been changed really but I was added. I still had not recieved anything.

So I sent them a notice through paypal that i was issuing a chargeback for my refund. Pebblesraven sent back there part no questions asked. Teil sent me a note on fa asking if I could close the chargeback because it left them in the negative and that they would refund me by next week.

Unfortunately after looking into the paypal policy i was not comfortable just closing the case, you cant reopen it once its closed. So I just went radio silent and before I could have even closed it(which I did not feel comfortable doing, so I wasnt going to), paypal had already sided with me.

It sucks cause they do have wonderful work but its super disorganized
celestinaketzia
Jun. 30th, 2018 02:00 pm (UTC)
Re: Similar scenario
Yes, it's unfortunate for the artist but never close a Paypal refund request for anyone. Ultimately they put themselves in that situation, and it's not your job to give them an interest free loan. I'm glad you got your money back.
cosmicing
Jun. 30th, 2018 03:26 pm (UTC)
Re: Similar scenario
Unlike you I got the wip almost immediately after asking about why I wasn't on the refund list, so I can't say my red flags match up with yours. However I'm super sorry to hear you got put through the run around, but glad you got your money back!

And yeah, I feel you on the "get one commission, don't receive the other." My girlfriend even surprised me with a stream-obtained chibi, which was incredibly thoughtful of her. I'm just dismayed that the two art pieces I have from Teil are always going to be soured by this experience now.
cosmicing
Jun. 30th, 2018 08:45 pm (UTC)
Added TEIL's picarto
Because I guess she's using that now again? I'm going to leave the link to her twitch channel in case she switches freely between the two (as well as a frame of reference) but I doubt it at this point because she's deleted the twitch link off of her profile page.

get me off mr. bones' wild ride please.
rueq
Jul. 1st, 2018 07:28 pm (UTC)
I adore Teil's art, but her trello is jam packed with people waiting and I can't fathom commissioning her and getting the art before all these other people. Her work ethic is extremely questionable. It's such a shame.
jessibean
Jul. 2nd, 2018 03:05 am (UTC)
I get so tired of artists saying they do not have the money to offer a refund at that time. Why are so many artists okay with literally stealing from other people? It baffles me, and always sets off the biggest red flags. I love Tiel's art, but I'm so put off by their behavior.
(Screened comment)
whoop_zi
Jul. 4th, 2018 05:40 pm (UTC)
mod comment
Howdy! This is being screened as we do not accept offsite beware links. You're welcome to either share a brief summary of your experience in the comments here, or submit a full beware of your own. Thanks!
cosmicing
Jul. 4th, 2018 04:38 am (UTC)
I just added a screenshot of TEIL's latest journal because. Hm. How am I supposed to take that?
rueq
Jul. 4th, 2018 09:58 pm (UTC)
Why do they post these journals and then delete them hours later?
(Screened comment)
cosmicing
Jul. 5th, 2018 09:37 pm (UTC)
Hey Pebbz. I'm glad you wrote your side of the story here for people to read, and I've edited my beware to point out you have NO involvement in this. I wish you the best and hope things work out for you!
celestinaketzia
Jul. 7th, 2018 03:15 pm (UTC)
Hi Pebbles!

Thank you for posting. The screenshot contains third party individuals who can't consent to being here. You may repost your comment with the names edited out, but for the time being this will have to be screened.

In addition, while we won't require you to leave off personal medical information you don't have to share that with the community at large. We value privacy, and this kind of information is something we would ask a poster submitting to us to omit. We'd just like to give you that option when you repost your comment.
lunahasawa996
Jul. 6th, 2018 07:05 pm (UTC)
UPDATE: It has come to my attention that Teil lied to me regarding Pebs being the reason I could never commission her. In reality Teil just couldn't directly tell me that she wished to not do business. So I am wanting to state that she blamed Pebs for her own problems, and thus directed my anger off of herself, and onto her now ex partner by lying to me instead of simply stating the truth.




I had a similar bad experience with TEIL that left me rather disappointed and disheartened from ever getting art from her. This happened back around Christmas 2017 time and her partner for whatever unknown reason blacklisted me, preventing me from really getting any art from TEIL as back then 99% of her work was colabs.

I was able to nab some $15 head shots, but when I posted specifically in my comment the ref and an updated appearance image, I was given artwork that wasn't what I said I wanted. It was like she ignored the fact I gave her the updated appearance link and just drew the first one. I didn't ask for a correction because I didn't feel like being charged extra to go back and have her fix her mistake.

When she finally put up a YCH that was all her, I quickly split the proceeds to AB with another user.

About 2-3 weeks later I politely asked for a WIP, and was suddenly instantly refunded for stressing TEIL out. She then offered he entire piece to the person who split the proceeds, but then started ignoring them when they wanted a refund and eventually said person said "f-it". I haven no idea to this day if that person ever got refunded their money or what happened since I stopped talking to them shortly after the event.

Watching from a distance at how bad things have gotten, while it hurt to see a possible only chance getting art from her go sour, I'm kinda glad I got refunded and missed a chance. I'm however not glad how things turned out for everyone else who's commented and has been affected, because I agree with cosmicing; she's turned from working on her queue to favoring quick art for a quick buck.

Edited at 2018-07-07 04:20 am (UTC)
kitkat_zz
Jul. 7th, 2018 07:08 am (UTC)
I commissioned Teil four times since I first saw her art, and the quality of each one dramatically lowered with each one. The first two were basically back to back in-stream, and I adored the first one, but the second one was.... off. The third one was an IA, and I had commissioned her in the hopes she would draw my chubby character well, but I had to correct her after she sent it to me, since she hadn't made character chubby at all, despite that being the whole reason I commissioned her to draw that character. To say nothing of the fact she made literally no effort to draw her with the right head shape (my char is a French Bulldog, but she gave her the usual human head with slight snout and the ears placed like accessories). Finally, I comm'd her for a sketch of one of my characters, hoping she'd draw her as the seductive Spanish singing woman she is in her sexy red dress, and instead I got a doodle with wonky anatomy, looking like a young girl in a sun dress. I could have said something, I guess, but as with Teil's busy life, I didn't see the point.

I never had to wait a particularly long time for any of these, but the fact that the quality was just... so bad, left the nastiest taste in my mouth. I'm still following because I'm just deep down hoping that maybe things will turn around, especially since I still like her art, but heck, I'm not even sure anymore.

Edited at 2018-07-07 07:10 am (UTC)
cosmicing
Jul. 11th, 2018 02:04 am (UTC)
I consider this matter resolved but I advise anyone still waiting and who've had no contact with TEIL to get a hold of her and see where you stand on the commission list.
celestinaketzia
Jul. 11th, 2018 02:47 am (UTC)
Glad you got your money! We've marked this as resolved.
( 26 comments — Leave a comment )

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