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More of Ashryn

UPDATE: I have absolved Ashryn of responsibilty for the picture. I'd rather just move on and forget about it as this point.


I myself commissioned Ashryn, although when compared to the two previous entries, my story isn't as sad. :/ One more voice to be heard, however...

I originally approached her back on April 1st of this year for a picture of my character. She wanted $45 for an oC commission, which was perfectly fine for me. My first request was fairly explicit... Going by the content on her gallery I thought she'd be fine with such subject matter. She expressed distate with that, however, so I changed my request to a pin-up shot instead - this will become relevant later on. Ashryn asked for me to pay her in full up front, something I was a bit leery of doing... however, according to her, "I usually do payment up-front since the commissions take a little under two weeks to complete."

Two weeks.

Of course, two weeks go by and I don't have anything from her at all. She informs me she can't work on it due to a houseguest, which is understandable. I don't hear from her again until about a month later, at which point she told me that she had finals AND an cold commission to finish, which is why it had taken so long. She then told me she'd have inks to me by that Saturday.

Two weeks after that, she told me she had a writing assignment, and then a week after that I finally received a sketch and inks. At this point it's May 26, nearly two months after I paid her in full. It's also at this point she tells me that she's in a desperate financial situation and that she'll do my original request (the explicit one) for $50, and only if I pay her up front. She also tells me that the original picture would be done "in a couple days time". I tell her that I'll think about it.

A couple days pass, and nothing. So I tell her that I'll take her up on the offer, but that I'll only give her a partial payment - she's okay with this, so I send the money towards the next picture and await the completion of the FIRST picture.

A month passes in which I don't hear from her again... now, I try not to pester, but I generally try to check back every week or so if I haven't been able to hear from an artist at all (my e-mail is notoriously flaky and tends to eat messages). I finally get in contact with her on June 21st, wherein she apologizes and informs me that her computer crashed. She then promises to me that the pictures will be finished by July 10th. Apparently she was planning on moving and wouldn't be able to get to her computer again until then.

July 10th rolls by, nothing. I wait a while, and then send her a refund request on July 25th. I ask for $45 back, allowing her $20 for the completion of the sketch/"inks" that I received. I hear from her again through chat on August 1 (four months now), and I explain to her pretty much everything that I've typed up so far. She informs me that she actually colored the picture but that the color layer disappeared, that her computer isn't hooked up, that she can't do anything. At this point, I'm more than fed up, and I give her an ultimatum. If she can complete the original picture by the end of the week and give me a sketch of the second request I'd give her a $20 bonus.

I get the colored picture 3 days later, upon which I give her $10 of the bonus.

As for the second picture, which she still owes me, I've heard nothing. Nothing. I'm currently out $20 and a whole lot of time and stress.


Oh, and one more thing, that just happened to really get under my skin. When she posted the finished work to her FurAffinity gallery she made some very negative remarks about my character in general that struck me as being very rude.




Beware of Ashryn. She is the most unprofessional artist I have ever worked with.

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Comments

( 28 comments — Leave a comment )
kjorteo
Sep. 13th, 2006 05:29 am (UTC)
Wait, hold on. It took me a bit to parse the math, but I think I get it now.

You pay $45 for the first commission. Much later, you pay her (unspecified amount--$20?) as a partial payment for the second commission. After more waiting and receiving nothing but a sketch, you ask for a $45 refund (encompassing both pictures, but letting her keep $20 just for what she did so far of the sketch of the first.) Instead, she finishes the first commission, but you're still out the $20 partial payment for the second? (Not discussing the bonus, since that was, you know, a bonus.)

At least you didn't get as ripped off, but sheesh, even if she did do something with that second picture or give you the $20 back, the waiting and stress is just totally not worth it. And I agree that those FA comments were pretty mean. I'm sorry. :/
yiffyraptor
Sep. 13th, 2006 05:30 am (UTC)
You got it right. :) I gave her a $20 partial payment for a picture I haven't received anything off of yet.
thaily
Sep. 13th, 2006 06:05 am (UTC)
I've heard similar stories, plus it seems she's always leaving the fandom because itsucksomgomg.
I can't tell wether she's always harried/stressed or if she's just a very negative person and sincerely hates her customers. And considering her adult work and the pride she seems to take in it, I don't know why she wouldn't draw you an adult image. Especially since I've seen her troll for customers on Tapestries >_>
kjorteo
Sep. 13th, 2006 07:19 am (UTC)
I've noticed the same general themes in all the Ashryn stories posted so far:

* General bad attitude in all circumstances; is just plain mean
* Turnaround speeds low enough to cause commissioners to frequently just write off the idea of ever seeing the finished piece
* Gets disenchanted with whatever she's in the middle of and blames the customer for it ("So about this stupid picture you're making me do....")
* Her favorite trick seems to be suddenly changing her mind as to how much her time is worth in the middle of the deal, and coming up with proposed amendments to it that occasionaly cross the line to mild extortion or blackmail ("Well, if you don't want me to turn around and sell prints, you could always pay more for the original....")
* Fun combination of points two and four: using her slow turnaround to stretch the deal into several months, then acting exasperated and demanding more compensation, as though she's actually been slaving away on it for all those months and it's not fair and you totally owe her more now or she'll sell everything elsewhere "to recoup her losses."
eisenkreis
Sep. 13th, 2006 09:22 pm (UTC)
a) Yes, please.
b) How many times have I stated that I'm slow? Oh wow, too many to count.
c) They usually *are* pretty vapid, let's be honest...

d) This is the real reason I'm replying. When you're getting paid less than minimum wage for the work you're doing, you generally need to get some extra compensation. While one could say 'Well, your fault for not charging more,' what they don't take into consideration is the fact that the furry art market is saturated with low prices. Thusly, anyone who asks for what an artist SHOULD be paid is seen as totally insane. What YOU don't seem to get is that any artist retains rights to the original, and that, yes, if someone DOESN'T want the image to be reproduced, they're essentially asking to buy the rights for the image. This is a COMMON. PHENOMENA. IN. THE ART FIELD. Just because it's furry doesn't mean that little stipulation needs to be taken away. If I can't make any more money on it, I expect to be paid better. You would be, too. Chrissake.

As for changing my mind as to what my time is worth, it's more like 'I went overtime and I'm not likely to get compensated, am I?' Beyond that? I state pretty damn clearly that any and all imagery that I do for people is going to be posted and sold. Hell, there's a contract on my goddamn website that says that in bold print. It's an OPTION. 'I want to spend as much as you'd make on selling reproductions of this piece elsewhere,' essentially. It's still my property. It's still my call. Any requests made to the effect of 'please don't publish this image' are not requests, they're an addendum to a business deal.

e) How would you know I'm NOT slaving away? Do you know how many iterations of an image I tend to go through when it comes to a good percentage of commissions? How long the timeframe is? How many sketches most artists go through in the planning stage of a piece if they want it to turn out right? If this one of those arguments of 'just because it's art it's not a real job and thus, an artist probably doesn't put much effort into it?' Because, really, having to do and RE-do the commission mentioned in this post was what I'd call 'slaving,' considering that I maybe made about $3/hour in the end.

I can't wait to see what cute little comments you fire back with. Either way, it's pretty much a moot point. EVERYONE here has not said one thing that I haven't said myself -- they only said it with the intent of being inflammatory. So far as I'm concerned, I've offered refunds, I'm going through with it in that fashion, and I'm washing my hands of commissions in general. So, really, y'all have got your wish. You're just whipping a dead horse at this point.
thegentilcat
Sep. 13th, 2006 10:13 pm (UTC)
Actually, yes - it 'is' your fault for not charging more for your commissions. If you gave a specific price range for a commissioned piece and money had been handed to your for that specific price - you have no right to go ahead and charge the commissioner extra after the image is completed, even if you feel that the amount of work you put into it is worth more than you initially charge. That is poor business practice right there.

A poor example here - but say you go to an ice cream parlor and order a sundae that cost maybe $3.50. Are you going to pay another $1.50 because the vendor added extra peanuts and double the syrup? I doubt it.

And when someone commissions an artist for a fanart of their own character, the artist does not reserve the right to keep the original and charge more after the fact if the commissioner desires the original piece and not wish to have the image reproduced. The artist made the artwork, but they do not own the character (s) and thereby cannot make a profit off of prints without either the owner's consent or paying royalties to the original owner of the character.

The artist cannot claim ownership of a character they never created.

As for your comments to the commissioner who reported yur poor business practices - that was uncalled for. Another part of accepting commissions is to keep such requests private. Stating what they had bene looking for is incredibly childish.

eisenkreis
Sep. 13th, 2006 10:47 pm (UTC)
There's only one instance of holding out on the original, and that could've been refuted pretty easily. In fact, it still can be, if that's what's desired and I can locate said original in my belongings. There's always room for compromise. But that's ONE instance -- one, out of many, in which the original is always relinquished.

It's funny, too, because in art theft disputes, the first thing people say is that the original artist can't copywrite a character, and thus, should shut up about it and just deal with it. So, should the commissioners also be held to that, or are we going to start spouting double-negatives in order to look better? The conceptual work and the imagery is still the artist's, and as of late, there's a contract online that states *plainly* that a commissioner can *choose* to keep the original from being made into a print or posted, and thus, the price will be higher. That's nothing new, in the least.

Furthermore, I have NEVER made a commissioner pay more money to recieve an original. I give the option. I will make mention of whether or not I've worked overtime and leave it to their discretion. Again, the ONLY instance in which that occured was with Tizzrah, which I'm guessing from this comment is precisely where the information was gained, and I COULD be wrong, but if I remember it wasn't a 'signed on blood' deal. I'd said I'd prefer to keep the original, and yes, I put a shit-ton of work in on that. Preference does not equal something that's set in stone. Tizzrah could have easily taken me to task and simply said 'No, that won't wash, I'm sorry, I'd just like the original and you can keep the scan' and I wouldn't have been able to refute that. At all. Nor would I want to.

If there's some empirical log file that shows the conversation between Tizzrah and myself and I have something to own up to in concerns to that conversation, then that's fine. Fact is, it was a long time ago, and I can't remember full context. Maybe I do have something to apologize for in that regard. But that is, and always will be, the *only* instance it occured. Don't exaggerate and turn this into something it isn't; just because you have half the information doesn't mean it applies in all cases.
eisenkreis
Sep. 13th, 2006 09:00 pm (UTC)
Baseless threats are your department, dahling.

I never left the fandom. o/' In fact, I don't think I ever even suggested leaving except once in a livejournal post that you agreed with wholeheartedly! OH IRONY.

ps: I'm not big on ass-fisting. And yes I did troll. I'm so naughty. o/'

pps: still butthurt, I see.
thaily
Sep. 14th, 2006 10:05 am (UTC)
Nono, you stated multiple times you were going to leave the fandom.
But you obviously haven't, so I guess there's still good money in it for you. Especially if you don't do the work you agreed to do I guess.

And I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be "butthurt" over, for me removing you from my f-list because you're a spiteful little ball of hatred? Sorry, I'm trying to cut down on negativity <3
evlclosetvortex
Sep. 13th, 2006 08:37 am (UTC)
Oh, and one more thing, that just happened to really get under my skin. When she posted the finished work to her FurAffinity gallery she made some very negative remarks about my character in general that struck me as being very rude.

That she wasn't fond of the color scheme? Thats one remark about the scheme she was working with? Not your character? ._.?
thaily
Sep. 13th, 2006 08:54 am (UTC)
Of all people you should know; some people are very sensitive about their characters.

Comments like that are best kept private.
evlclosetvortex
Sep. 13th, 2006 10:10 am (UTC)
I'm not sensitive about my characters, plenty of people don't like Zer's inverted cross, or her scars :D~ Don't phase me.
thegentilcat
Sep. 13th, 2006 05:14 pm (UTC)
Yes, but that is you (which isnt a bad thing; don't get me wrong). But not everyone feels that way. If one person doesn't like someting about another's creation (whether it be the color scheme, overall design, measurements , personality, etc), they have no business making suggestions on what would make the character look better (which is what I found rude reading the comments on the finished product).

The atists didn't create the character, so has no business making suggestions on how to 'improve' it.
bagelofdeath
Sep. 13th, 2006 02:18 pm (UTC)
she made some very negative remarks about my character in general

You're kidding. O_O That's...wow.
skanrashke
Sep. 13th, 2006 03:01 pm (UTC)
I've never had any experience with this person, but this is my opinion.
You waited two months for an inked/coloured picture.
That sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Everyone assumes once they throw their money at someone, they're magically first in line. Suppose she had other shit to do? Suppose there were ten people ahead of her and she assumed you read her list of people she had to do first? If thats true, then you're not being very fair to her. Artists are BUSY. Its a fact of life. Especially furry artists.
Then they're busy and underpaid.
Now as far as her being illtempered and mean, well- that comes with the territory. Her making comments on your character are STUPID, however. That wasn't cool. I can imagine someone saying something like "Holy god, i hope I never have to do one like that again- getting OC to blend red and green like that was a BITCH" is one thing, saying "Your colour scheme sucks" is another.
yiffyraptor
Sep. 14th, 2006 02:44 am (UTC)
It's not the waiting time that I minded, honestly. It's that she gave me a specific deadline, asked me to pay up front because of said deadline, repeatedly fell behind, and was nothing but evasive about it.

If she had been honest and upfront and told me there would be a significant wait, then I'd be fine. :) I've waited years for pictures before with no ill will - in those cases it was made clear I'd be waiting for a long time.


I'd also disagree with artists being ill-tempered or mean - up until her posts on this entry, I would have called Ashryn "unprofessional", but never ill-tempered. In fact, the vast majority of artists I've commissioned have been positively fantastic. :D
likeshine
Sep. 13th, 2006 03:44 pm (UTC)

link to the picture, please?
idigull
Sep. 13th, 2006 04:37 pm (UTC)
link to picture
lilangelwings
Sep. 13th, 2006 04:48 pm (UTC)
I think the biggest no-no that artists do is lead their customers on that they can have the piece finished in X amount of time. Life happens, things come up, classes, emergencies, assignments, jobs, and time to oneself is always important. I always keep in touch with my customers but I never have a set amount of time I will finish in unless I have a paid for deadline. Its seemed to work well for me and most problems I see are with miscommunication and how much time it takes to finish a commission.

I hope you get the rest of your money back and everything works out for you.
eisenkreis
Sep. 13th, 2006 08:55 pm (UTC)
Oh yeah, that $10 was such a huge bonus. Enough that I forgot it was in my paypal account and NOW IT'S BACK TO YOU!

Actually, keep it up, guys. Discouraging more people from commissioning me is EXACTLY what I've been trying to do since I got out to California. I love it when people do my work for me. '_'/

What's even funnier is I've said the same things about myself time and time again. Thing is-- the thing is... I don't get paid nearly enough to meet fast deadlines. And my biggest mistake EVER was saying that I'd make *any* deadline on time when it comes to working for a single client as opposed to a corporation.

Love, savor, kiss and cherish that lovely $10 you sent before. It loved lavishing around my paypal account, all happy and warm. And its purpose was thus: if you did, in fact, pull something like this, I could at least send back that until my bank account is established and the new debit card is verified by paypal.

I LOVE BEING ABLE TO WASH MY HANDS OF SHIT LIKE THIS. WOOHOO AWESOME.
diyaego
Sep. 13th, 2006 10:18 pm (UTC)
Congratulations. You’ve painted a perfect portrait of the total ass that you are.
eisenkreis
Sep. 13th, 2006 10:33 pm (UTC)
I'd be less of one if, in fact, there'd been some communique before this post, and some acknowledgement to the fact that I made no promises as to the completion of the second piece. 'Try' is an operative word, here. Furthermore, there hasn't been a single time that I've called a customer out before they did the same to me. I was against this community from the get-go when it was to bitch specifically about customers, NOT artists, which was the original modus operandi.

If retaliating to a post made with no warning or preamble -- there was no conversation past the first piece, which was completed the *moment* I got my computer up and running to do art again, and no comments on deadlines past what I'd stated. Might be done in a week. Maybe. Possibly.

So. To continue -- if retaliation is a crime against man and makes me a giant meanie, then so be it.
evlclosetvortex
Sep. 14th, 2006 02:15 am (UTC)
Yeah, except not.
eisenkreis
Sep. 13th, 2006 09:01 pm (UTC)
ps:
The only thing I can possibly apologize for is the above -- saying I could make a deadline on a piece when I had no incentive to meet said deadline except that amazing $10. So! I'm vaguely sorry for that. More sorry before this post was made, but definitely, in some far corner of the universe, I'm sorry, kind of.
yiffyraptor
Sep. 14th, 2006 02:17 am (UTC)
Re: ps:
Er... I tried talking to you about this several times, Ashryn. I ask that you please treat me with the same professional courtesy that I've treated you. Even when I spoke with you on AIM I was as polite as I could be.

As for the waiting time, Ashryn... it's like I said before:

"[13:54] YiffyRaptor: Oh, I've waited a year for a commission before. The only difference is that he was very clear up front about how long it would take. You asked for payment in full up front, which I'm normally not comfortable with, and told me that the reason for taking it up-front is that the commission would take two weeks. :/"

I honestly don't mind waiting four months, as long it's made very clear that's how long it will take. :) Resorting to angry name-calling ignores the core issue - I really, really like your artwork and I'll gladly pay you for it. I just ask to be not treated in an insulting and dishonest manner in the process.
acexcat
Sep. 14th, 2006 11:42 pm (UTC)
I had a similar experience with her years back, BUT.... I learned another important lesson in the process.

I asked what it would take for her to do a pic of a character... she said $40, and since I had it at the time, I sent it off along with a description.

Two mistakes... first, I paid up front and second, I sent it in cash. There's a few jackoffs out there who get some perverted pleasure out of screwing things up for EVERYONE else, and since then I've learned that paying up front is a bad idea. I don't to that anymore.

I let the whole thing go because I figure it was the post office's fault.... they've CONVENIENTLY lost every package that's contained cash I've ever sent or was meant to receive. They don't even have the courtesy to say 'thanks sucker!'

Either way, no art. I've also let the situation pass; lessons learned the hard way.
kaleidoscopejoe
Sep. 25th, 2006 10:15 am (UTC)
Ehm, people who work in postal jobs tend to become very familiar with the way cash feels in an envelope.

Hence your dilemma.
kaleidoscopejoe
Sep. 25th, 2006 10:30 am (UTC)
I guess I'll be the first to talk about a good experience with Ashryn, despite the fact that this seems to be the 'shit all over Ashryn' post.

The way I see it, commissions ought to be paid up front. Not only does it make the contract feel a little more binding, it's also a nice crack on the ass for the artist to get working. Granted, I've only ever taken one commission in my life [my art sucks] so I haven't quite mastered the whole game yet. I just figure, different people work different ways.

I figure, don't be afraid to send in your money beforehand - but on the same note, don't be afraid to ask for your money back. Because frankly, it's yours until the artist turns up some art. If not? Take matters into your own hand. Buy a gun. Figure out where they live. ;P "ART ME, BITCH!" Or, post about it on a Livejournal community where other people can relate. Nerk.

Going by my Paypal receipt and the datestamp on the file she sent me, 16 days elapsed between payment [16 March] and done-ness [11 April]. I was going to commission her for an OC piece, but I've been much too lazy to get in contact with her as of late. Maybe I got lucky? Who knows. It might also help that I got in touch with her beforehand and had some nice conversations with her - shooting the shit, mostly - before I lined up to ask for a commission.

Now, being as this is a community all about warding others off the commission track of the furry art world, I'm going to take my rationale and level head and buzz off elsewhere. As you were! :D
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