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WHO: Eltalite/Elty/Demu/Rhey

WHERE: FurAffinity (x3) - https://www.furaffinity.net/user/elty
https://www.furaffinity.net/user/demu/
https://www.furaffinity.net/user/rhey/
Weasyl: https://www.weasyl.com/~demu
DeviantART (x3) - https://eltalite.deviantart.com/
https://inkydemu.deviantart.com/
https://demu.deviantart.com/
DeviantART Group - https://whitevale.deviantart.com/
Tumblr - http://eltalite.tumblr.com/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/eltalite
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/eltalite
(There may be others I am unaware of. I apologize for this.)

WHAT: An Original Species Adopt Found here: https://www.furaffinity.net/view/18744417/ was sold to me for $250 and has since been reclaimed. I was not given a refund for it, and the individuals that are aids to the seller as well as the seller in question all refuse to even speak to me.

WHEN: I bought the design on January 10th 2016. A dispute between me and the artist occurred sometime in October 2016 that got me blocked by them everywhere, including emails after an email exchange with the artist. The adopt was "reclaimed" on August 24th 2017 and after a brief attempt at an email exchange I was dismissed, and ignored. (Please note that I live in the UK which will cause time zone differences between me and the artist as they don't live in the UK)

EXPLAIN & PROOF: On January 10th 2016 me and the artist entered an exchange via notes that displays my interest in buying the adopt in question. The artist accepted and I sent them the payment without delay within the space of an hour. (Notes: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzhBESqCaxDiUDFVS3EydDlvSGs/view?usp=sharing, PayPal: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzhBESqCaxDiQUJHNFdFWi0yVjA)

On October 2nd 2016 Demu posted a journal concerning the his original species Ferrin, stating that female Ferrin no-longer had breasts as they lay eggs instead of producing live young, negating the need for the females to produce milk. I posted some comments on this journal and Demu took offence with them and blocked me, on every platform they knew or could discover I was on. Now when I purchased the adopt they make it a requirement that we adhere to an agreement called the Ferrin Adopt Agreement. this agreement is updated regularly and I can not provide the version that I initially agreed to or the version of it that was enforced at the time I was blocked. The current version is here: http://whitevalestudio.com/athenaeum/doku.php?id=documentation:adopt_agreement . The reason this is relevant is because it was last updated on November 2016, after October 2nd 2016 when this incident be
tween us took place. The oldest version I can find is here: https://sta.sh/0kw73r0l6sq which was updated October 2015

Now after being blocked initially I felt terrible and disgusted with myself to the point it had a negative consequence on my mental condition, so I panicked somewhat and emailed them to apologize (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzhBESqCaxDiaGR3RUxRT0FqVGs/view?usp=sharing) . This didn't go down well. But being in the panicked mood that I was and the overly emotional state that comes with my depression, I kept talking (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzhBESqCaxDiMnFveHFWY3pkem8/view?usp=sharing) because that's how I am. It's how I've been forged and is a sad factor of how I work no matter what. This I can explain, for those that wish to know.

That also did not go down well (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzhBESqCaxDiU1NQaXl1T2FTSEU/view?usp=sharing, https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzhBESqCaxDicVlVVTNGVmt2QkE/view?usp=sharing), they blocked my email and I could not reach them (not sure how you "block" an email) so anything I sent to them after a certain point would not be seen by Demu, or anyone else with access to the email.

The reason this is important is because in the version of the Adopt Agreement I was bound to it stated that if I wanted to sell an adopt I needed to inform Demu of it first, with me being blocked, I could not do so in any way shape or form. So this for me potentially dissolved our agreement as that can happen when one makes it impossible for one party makes it impossible for the other party to fulfil their part of said agreement. So by blocking me everywhere, Demu essentially nullified the Adopt Agreement between us meaning it did not apply to me any longer or the Ferrin I adopted. But the opposite could also be true as the full legal depth of it is rather tricky as it's essentially impossible to copyright a species based on a design and words alone, because of how copyright law works. So for me I was left in a sort of limbo, and wasn't exactly sure how to progress. So I settled on a compromise. I would bind myself to the majority of the Agreement as it was written on
the date of me being blocked from contacting them via email, I would check Demu's account once a month to see if I'd been unblocked to establish that the Adopt Agreement would then be reestablished between us as the original issue was resolved, and in 1 year (October 2nd 2017) if I was not unblocked, I would check the new Agreement and decide if I wished to follow it, if not I would ask a friend to contact Demu and notify them of this and state I wish to sell the design to not cause a conflict of interest. i tried to illustate this ion the ferrin I adopted with the Artists Comment box that comes with everythign one uploads to FA and such sites (This screen shots were sent to me by Demu's staff as their evidence against me https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzhBESqCaxDiUFhKQVg0M1RmN3hHNVZUcEhnNllseHJzWkpN/view?usp=sharing)That was the plan anyway.

But on August 24th 2017, a member of staff working for Demu contacted me and stated that they were reclaiming the mentioned adopt (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzhBESqCaxDibkJNRW14SlpMUnM). One reason for this is because of the above linked part of my Artists Comment box, where I say I will not follow it after the point of being blocked, and the others were because I keep a public list of the people that have blocked me (http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/8003830/, Print Screen provided by Demu's aid in case it gets deleted: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzhBESqCaxDicGlMbkJwelhFdnpqUmJUSUpjdFlYWXNWcHQ4) on an Announcement Board style Journal, this is to ensure anyone that follows me is aware that those artists shouldn't be recommend
ed to me since I'm blocked, I can't communicate with them. trying to would defeat the purpose of suggesting them, the other is because I have a journal entry entirely dedicated as an apology towards Demu (http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/7838301/, Print Screen provided by Demu's aid in case it gets deleted: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzhBESqCaxDiX0JCdi1WMzdEdUZFcl8tMGRZTUtURmM3LVV3). These are notices and a public apology which is in of itself an acknowledgement of wrongdoing. The apology itself was posted in September 2016 and in my previous emails to Demu I informed them about them, and yet are only now bringing it up as an apparent issue. So I responded, again panicking as that's just in my nature and as such it's not going to be very...elegant (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzhBESqCaxDiWGNvMUlCaEI0SU0). After that my mind started to swirl with the idea I'd been robbed blind and so I looked up about how PayPal deals with the issue. too late as it has a 180 general limit after the original exchange. This lead me to worry, but then a friend calmed me down and said that it might be best to file a dispute anyway so you have a filed objection but make it so Demu gets a chance to respond. So I did, but the options of what was "wrong" didn't fit the description of what was actually wrong so, i just picked one at random, and filed my complaint with some of my argument included as well as my suggestions on ways to resolve this (Link 1: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzhBESqCaxDiNzJobktUOWh6cHc, Link 2: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzhBESqCaxDiTUNlNlF0aTRQYkU).

This didn't go down well as I then received another email, that not only dismissed everything I've said but also made many accusations towards me as an individual (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzhBESqCaxDiYjl0LXpmOHFTcVE). So to this I responded, with my friend keeping me calm throughout the exchange so that I could put things more elegantly as shown here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzhBESqCaxDiNnJFSloxM3ItQzA.

This email has been ignored and will likely continue to be ignored.

Throughout the exchange since being blocked Demu and their associate has made personal attacks against me as an individual, which for me adds insult to the injury of being left $250 worse off. So for me they have established themselves as a scam artist. I once had further evidence that would support this claim entirely, but I have lost it since my laptop broke and my bookmarks did not import entirely when I used a temporary one. Anything else would be conjecture at this point and I'd rather we all deal with facts.

I as an individual know my faults in this and can learn and grow from it, I can explain some of the issues Demu and his aid have with me but again that would be conjecture. If Artist Beware staff permit I will elaborate in response to any comments that inquire about it.

UPDATE 1:

The artist RamTheDragon has offered to do their own version of the design for me so I'm not using Elty's art anylonger. For free.
The finished image of said piece can be found here (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzhBESqCaxDiVXJZMy1xd04zTUU) and here (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/24790880/). They have expressed a willingness to be named, for their kind gesture.

Also in my upload of the image here (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/24790880/) which i have also Print Screen here (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzhBESqCaxDiMWpJZ3Zla0JJTVE).

I have also sent an email, shown here (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzhBESqCaxDiY3FpbDdaVmR5Rkk), to Elty/Demu, to express my intent on keeping the character.

UPDATE 2:

The artist (Elty) of said Character has contancted me via email here (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzhBESqCaxDiWlN2dm9mMHp5SzA) and here (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzhBESqCaxDiSkZ6YUtfTnVuT0U). The artist has commented below.

Any future conversations between the artisst and I share in private will either be expalined or shared here, to help anyone that see's this Beware in future be as aware of what has transpired as transparent as possible.

UPDATE 3:
The artist Elty, has been entire appologetic about what has happened. It seems that a friend they trusted to help them manage their emails abused their position of power. This is presumed to be because of issues in their personal life which has nothign to do with either I or Elty. Their original act of reclaiming the character was not a power they were granted by Elty and as such the official statement by Elty the Whitevale team is that it never should have been taken and that the act was more or less a type of theft on their part, caused by a singular member of the team (who has now lost their position). So the issue is resolved.

Before commenting, please read our Community Rules.
Do not go after persons posted about here, by leaving comments on their art pages.
If you have been posted about, please read I've Been Posted on Artists_Beware, Now What?

Comments

( 82 comments — Leave a comment )
Page 1 of 2
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celestinaketzia
Aug. 30th, 2017 01:33 am (UTC)
Honestly the things people attempt to get away with something that has no legal existence is appalling. They can't keep your money, and that clause is so arbitrary that they could potentially abuse it.

They also can't retroactively make you apply to a new ToS every time they change it. Not without getting your agreement. Changing things and then making it apply retroactively is so obscenely shady. Especially given all the weird limitations put on these adoptables.

I'm really sorry that you're out of Paypal's claim window. =\
haru_totetsu
Aug. 30th, 2017 01:36 am (UTC)
Thanks. I'm still going to see if I can get my money back by contacting PayPal and use all my available options.
flareon
Aug. 30th, 2017 02:51 am (UTC)
So... you don't have to do anything, you know. Demu can go pound sand.

Like I'm not sure what you're worried about by him "reclaiming" or doing anything else really. It's your character. You have the receipt. Just ignore him. He can't DO anything to you.

Furthermore, there's actually a legal precedent on your side. He can't revoke an original agreement that you had, especially not without some kind of reconciliation. He offered you nothing, he gave no discussion, and.. by the looks of things, you tried. He did not. Legally, he has no ground to stand on. It's all in your favor, man.

The worst he can do is look stupid by reselling a character that .. apparently someone else has established somewhere? Seems like there might be some concerns about the value! Tainted merchandise, even!

If I were you, I would hold onto your purchase. Continue as you were. Develop her. Commission more art. Screw Demu. Let him deal with concerned buyers who might pose the question "Who's that guy?" That is not your problem, and you need not make it yours.
leahtaur
Aug. 30th, 2017 03:25 am (UTC)
Excellent advice. OP, you get to have either the character, your money, or something else of equivalent value that you agree upon - since you haven't received the money or an offer of anything else, keep using the character.

However, continual communication with this artist/their staff, especially the way you're evading their blocks, is not going to help anyone and is bordering into harassment territory. I'm sorry to hear about your depression but the way it influences your communication with and ABOUT this artist on your page is only aggravating the situation. At this point I think it's better to let your actions speak louder than words and just keep using the character since you haven't received a refund. If the artist/their staff want to talk to you about it they can pause blocking you and reach out to you themselves.
(no subject) - haru_totetsu - Aug. 30th, 2017 06:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - haru_totetsu - Aug. 30th, 2017 06:08 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - wuvvumsoc - Aug. 31st, 2017 03:43 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - haru_totetsu - Aug. 31st, 2017 10:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - flareon - Aug. 31st, 2017 01:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - haru_totetsu - Aug. 31st, 2017 10:26 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - flareon - Sep. 2nd, 2017 02:03 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - haru_totetsu - Sep. 2nd, 2017 07:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
rayesesshyfan
Aug. 30th, 2017 03:57 am (UTC)
Also echoing to keep using the character.

That agreement of theirs is very shady not allowing refunds for a certain amount of time. That says enough that anyone is stuck whether they agree to the new ones or not and can kiss their money goodbye.

If they want it gone from your hands, then they'll have to refund you. End of story.

haru_totetsu
Aug. 30th, 2017 06:16 pm (UTC)
Well sites like FA and such are notoriously biased on matters like this. They generally favour the artists because those people are why we're all there using those sites in the first place. Everything else is sort of secondary. So the general attitude of sites like that have forced my hand.

Plus the characters already been re-sold by Elty.

I'll still fight for a refund, indefinitely if I have to. This isn't the end of the matter for me and it won't be until I get my money back or them admitting they were wrong and stole the character from me via threats. Nothing shady I'll just use every legal asset at my disposal.
(no subject) - rayesesshyfan - Sep. 5th, 2017 05:25 am (UTC) - Expand
wuvvumsoc
Aug. 30th, 2017 04:58 am (UTC)
That's pretty shady, and I honestly would continue to keep the character and use it until they could find a way to compensate you for the original purchase, plus the cost of any commissions.

I'm really dumbfounded anyone would even do this.
wuvvumsoc
Aug. 30th, 2017 05:04 am (UTC)
Even then you can't really force a buyback on somebody.
(no subject) - haru_totetsu - Aug. 30th, 2017 06:36 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - wuvvumsoc - Aug. 30th, 2017 06:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - haru_totetsu - Aug. 31st, 2017 12:26 am (UTC) - Expand
untitledo
Aug. 30th, 2017 05:18 am (UTC)
I'll go on record saying that Demu has ~400 of my money and I'll never see it again, including two adopts from before there was even a "TOS". It's been a few years since I've had any business with them, but I did make the mistake in investing my trust in their word.

They legally cannot prevent you from using the character you purchased. And you cannot preemptively agree to all future TOS changes. They're required to give you notification every time the TOS changes and to receive your agreement. The purchase you made wasn't for a service or a device - it was rights to use a design. You have bought those rights, and they cannot be revoked.

So please. ~Please~ go get more art of the character you bought, and develop them! You may get blocked by a few Demu sympathizers and whatnot, but whatever. They support an unstable and cruel person who causes all sorts of drama.

I feel terribly bad for Trickitt, they're an excellent and hard working individual who's being oppressed and enslaved by their partner.
haru_totetsu
Aug. 30th, 2017 06:18 pm (UTC)
Thank you
It's nice to know I'm not alone in experiencing this from them. If I were i'd feel like I, might be starting something over nothing. I think I'll keep what I've written for the character on file and see how else I can use it at least.
Re: Thank you - untitledo - Aug. 30th, 2017 11:51 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Thank you - haru_totetsu - Aug. 31st, 2017 12:30 am (UTC) - Expand
MOD COMMENT - kayla_la - Aug. 30th, 2017 09:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: MOD COMMENT - untitledo - Aug. 30th, 2017 11:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: MOD COMMENT - kayla_la - Aug. 30th, 2017 11:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: MOD COMMENT - untitledo - Aug. 31st, 2017 12:31 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: MOD COMMENT - whoop_zi - Aug. 30th, 2017 11:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
rendrassa
Aug. 30th, 2017 06:22 am (UTC)
"Must ask permission" seems to be the three god words for the artist. Most of that stuff can't be enforced, and I'd go insane trying to keep up with all the "permission requests" whenever someone wanted to (sarcasm here) even look at their character!

Character designs can't be copyrighted, and each design would need to be trademarked individually, which I understand is very difficult. The only thing the artist can do is have the art they drew taken down from wherever they want. Any art that was not drawn by them, they have no power over.

My advice, keep using the character that you paid money for, stop calling it a (whatever the species name is) or using the artist's original image, and just live your life.


Edited at 2017-08-30 06:25 am (UTC)
haru_totetsu
Aug. 30th, 2017 06:24 pm (UTC)
I know it's kind of shady, always did, but in this case I actually didn't mind it. I kind of liked the idea of them keeping track of where all of them go in a depository as I felt it would be great to find fellow Ferrin owners, and work with them of stories and development for our characters being in a similar setting. I was blinded by the story potential.

I knew I forgot to do something. Should have trademarked the bugger. But sadly they've re-sold it and I don't want an innocent bystander to get robbed as well. If I knew who they were I'd explain the situation to them and about how legality stands on it. See what they want to do. After all most people buy these designs and never really use them. I can't juts let soemone else get robbed or more likely stir up trouble for one of us because of this. You know how people on the internet can be.
(no subject) - rendrassa - Aug. 30th, 2017 07:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
venatorrooc
Aug. 30th, 2017 01:15 pm (UTC)
Chiming in with agreement to continue using the character and ignoring Demu. You paid the money, they refuse to refund you, so just go on with the character.

Stop using the artist's original image and instead commission a new one (Demu can request their art to be taken down if uploaded so get a new one made), and maybe change the species name & some details of the design. Just make it yours.

Also, my advice would be to avoid anyone who says they can & will forcibly "reclaim" a character you rightfully bought from them. With all Demu's rules on acceptable do's & don't's plus the reclaiming with refunds, and trying to retroactively apply updated ToS, is hella shady.
haru_totetsu
Aug. 30th, 2017 06:26 pm (UTC)
You know...I think I'll do that...somewhat. I'll utilise the basis of that design and create something else in the future. I'll keep fighting for my money and warn others about their shady practice.
Rachael Walters
Aug. 30th, 2017 10:50 pm (UTC)
Far as I remember, they cannot force the new TOS on you if you bought it before they were put in place, forcing people to it without them agreeing is just wrong. Would love to dodge this user in future, shame the species is cute but their attitude is not to my liking to want to give money to.

Keep using the character and if anyone askes, just tell them you never got refunded so you still own the character until the refund is given because you broke no actual rules, just the creator got moody with you >_>

Even banks/internet companies inform you of changes and don't force them on you unless you sign/agree.
haru_totetsu
Sep. 2nd, 2017 08:07 pm (UTC)
Well an artist has already offered to redo the design, which would mean Elty wouldn't be able to claim the art as their own like they currently can. I'll wait till the artist that offered is done and upload that.
galaxy_deer
Aug. 31st, 2017 01:57 pm (UTC)
Original species things like this always rubs me the wrong way. There's always a high chance that double dipping could occur? Abut this one is super shady, he got mad over a comment on it and pretty much said you can't follow the lore so you lose privileges.

Frankly I agree with everyone, screw him and continue using the character. You could still keep the species name since that's what -you- bought. No matter now many fake TOS' he creates for a species won't stop you.
haru_totetsu
Sep. 2nd, 2017 08:05 pm (UTC)
In this case I actually thought that Elty was going to further the species into being soemthign more than just a fancy design, they've basically been advertising them as such, with all this Whitevale nonsense. So I truly believed that they weren't just an original species, but one with a universe and stories tied into it. Seems I was wrong to believe them, which has become more and more apparent over time. They've been doing this "project" for a LONG time and it's gotten nowhere.
xnir0x
Aug. 31st, 2017 04:14 pm (UTC)
With their logic, they could pretty much act offended towards anything, block their adopt clients and resell the designs over and over. This sounds extremely scammy.. Also their attitude towards you even when you attempted to apologize.
Thank you for taking time to warn us about this!
xnir0x
Aug. 31st, 2017 04:22 pm (UTC)
Also may I ask what exactly your comment said, that offended them so much?
(no subject) - haru_totetsu - Aug. 31st, 2017 10:34 pm (UTC) - Expand
latiro
Aug. 31st, 2017 08:48 pm (UTC)
That's really low of Demu to outright block you for making some comments on his journal about female Ferrins after you paid him $250 for an adoptable. And it certainly doesn't help that he's now ignoring all of your attempts at contacting him.

Beware well warranted.

BTW, he's also on Weasyl, just so you know.

https://www.weasyl.com/profile/demu
celestinaketzia
Aug. 31st, 2017 09:36 pm (UTC)
mod comment
We would strongly advice the OP against continuing to block evade. While they were essentially stolen from, continuing to evade blocks can tip into harassment territory.
Re: mod comment - latiro - Aug. 31st, 2017 09:53 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: mod comment - haru_totetsu - Aug. 31st, 2017 10:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Aug. 31st, 2017 10:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - haru_totetsu - Aug. 31st, 2017 10:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
sapphistscot
Aug. 31st, 2017 10:49 pm (UTC)
So if I'm reading this correctly - this artist sells adopts but constantly changes their 'adoption agreement' after the customer has paid and if they think that their customer has violated an agreement they changed after the purchase took place, then they get to take the adopt back and resell it without giving the original buyer a refund? Because if that's the case then that's a huge red flag to never, ever buy from this artist and also possibly illegal. You can't change an agreement *after* a purchase has taken place and insist that the buyer has violated the agreement when the buyer never agreed to it in the first place!

So basically this artist can use their constantly changing 'adoption agreement' as grounds to resell their adopts ad infinitum. Yikes.
haru_totetsu
Aug. 31st, 2017 10:59 pm (UTC)
That's what people keep telling me. Seems I'm the first to post something like an AB about them though.

I wish I actually knew someone who was familiar with the legality of the whole thing, as then I'd know for certain if what they've done is legal or not.

Edited at 2017-08-31 11:00 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - flareon - Sep. 2nd, 2017 02:06 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - haru_totetsu - Sep. 2nd, 2017 08:02 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - counter_serum - Sep. 6th, 2017 05:32 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - haru_totetsu - Sep. 9th, 2017 07:20 pm (UTC) - Expand
Anakarr Slayde
Sep. 8th, 2017 11:44 am (UTC)
You paid for the character, he accepted the money. The character is yours to do wit as you please. Regardless of what is stated in his ToS or whatever youd like to call it, you can commission art of it, write backstory for it, change its nature all you like. You now own that character. The only thing you cannot do, is create more characters that are the same species and sell them.

Here is the thing about "closed species". People think that by doodling up a design, they can tell others that they cannot draw anythign like it. This is simply not true. You can draw what youd like, even if it is similar to what someone else has drawn. People might find it "in poor taste" but you can do it. A person would literally have to copyright it as a species (not just the image) and only then would they be able to dictate any of that. Which, good luck with that.

Bottom line, you paid for it, he accepted the money, its yours, do what you want with it.
haru_totetsu
Sep. 9th, 2017 07:19 pm (UTC)
True enough. After all the Ferrin sort of looked like a type of cat species.

Plus I'm kind of aware that legally speaking they don't have much of a leg to stand on, since they can't force me to agree to a ToS I haven't had the chance to read before agreeing to it. The fact they didn't email me updates to the ToS (which I'm told wouldn't have been too difficult to implement), is evidence I've not legally agreed to anything. Plus the amount of info you'd need to produce to actually argue that one has created an original species is quite large I'm sure, and they don't have that kind of info. There's only 5 things about Ferrin I know and none of them would really back up their claims in a court of law.

So overall you're right. the only issue I have to deal with is the rights to the original art. They still retain them, so when an artist has supplied me with a new Ref Sheet thing for them (which is coming along beautifully), I'll carry on as normal.
demu
Sep. 14th, 2017 05:42 am (UTC)
Part 1
( I've e-mailed Haru Totetsu personally before writing this comment in an attempt to open communication and apologize & rectify the issue ASAP, as there was a very unfortunate dynamic with my staff that largely, but not entirely, kindled this issue. )

( Also sorry for any poor writing, this kinda stuff makes me really nervous. ;o; )

Okay, so.. I'll start off by saying this is a very bizarre situation. I was sent here by one of my friends because they said I had an AB written about me, which made my heart skip a beat in fear cause I never thought I'd end up here?? To get straight to the point, one of my volunteers had a very petty issue with OP and they took matters into their own hands, which ultimately led to this. I'll take full responsibility since I took the person into my team and I was responsible for keeping track of what they did. I failed to do so until after this all happened, so I'm very sorry it came to this.

I take my business very seriously. I always make sure to keep everything very formal and make a huge effort to communicate as best as possible. In the last year I've started to receive lots of emails/messages, which is why I had someone managing it to begin with. They would see the email and tell me about it, then I'd tell them how to respond. I'll admit I trusted them a bit too much and gave them too much free reign. I regret everything. I should have been doing this myself. I'm so upset.

Before this, I had never run into an issue regarding my adopts. This situation is so overblown due to a petty grudge my volunteer had and I'm really upset that it came to this. Clearly I made a mistake hiring them, and I take FULL responsibility. ;; Firstly, I shouldn't have blocked you on FA (though, I did not block your e-mails, but I'll explain that later). Second, there was definitely a huge error in the logic of my Terms. The "retroactive" agreement. That's completely unfair. I will update people when the terms are updated from now on, in the form of a public journal or personal message, but preferably personal message so they can agree to it. Retroactive updates without notification are totally not cool, I know that now and I'm sorry. Third, I sent you an e-mail about the Paypal dispute personally the moment I saw that there was a dispute, did you receive it? If not, it was probably because it was never sent due to filters. We can talk about it and you can update the AB if you want. :3 I'm fine with whatever. I just wanna resolve this and make sure you're happy.

After I found the AB post, my volunteer has oh-so-conveniently disappeared and is refusing to talk to me now. They've removed me from Discord and ignored my emails since. I think that was like a week ago. I have no way to contact them now. I've since learned that I can't trust them to be honest with me or handle anything of mine anymore. I'm handling it on my own from now on. Once I can get a hold of them to talk, if ever again, I'll post screenshots of my chat with them in hopes of finding out why exactly they had to lie to me and Haru. All I know is that it was a personal grudge based on some journal on FA, but with no proof or substance behind that so I can't verify it and that makes me look like /I'm/ lying. So I don't know what to do. I checked my webhost CPanel thingy and under the global email filters, my volunteer added an "Ignore and Discard" filter and your e-mail is the only one there. I'm so sorry, I feel horrible and this is so not fair. I deserve this AB for letting this happen. ;;

ANYWAY, regarding the post: The beginning half I completely understand and I'm so sorry it ended up with me blocking you. I shouldn't have blocked you for such a minor issue - life issues or not. That's not me. I'm so sorry...
demu
Sep. 14th, 2017 05:42 am (UTC)
Part 2
The latter half is what concerned me. Like the entire reclamation of the design. It shouldn't have happened at all. I had no plans to take the design from OP. I've never taken a design I sold someone without their explicit permission. I'm going to remove the no refund thing from my terms entirely since it's poor ethics anyway.

Anyway, as far as I was concerned, I simply had a little altercation with Haru, which was my fault, through comments and blocked prematurely and was just gonna move on from there. I was going through really hard things at the time, and that probably amplified my reaction.. I don't mean that to sound like an excuse though, just an explanation for my poor behavior.

Then I read the second half of this AB. I almost thought the second part was made up. I never saw the discussion about reclamation, all I was told by my former community manager was that you were relinquishing your design without a refund. That's it. It was ignorant of me, but I didn't think to question them more on the issue because I thought maybe you were bitter with me so I just accepted that you wanted me to resell it without a refund. So I resold it for half the price to someone in my Discord server that wanted to remain anonymous for personal reasons (I've since refunded the buyer and given the design back to Haru). I was basically lied to and I was too ignorant to check myself. The emails are gone now, too, which I'm pretty pissed about. I'm sure it sounds super convenient given the context, and at the moment my credibility is probably at a mega low with this community since it's such a bizarre, extreme situation. I feel vulnerable and I want to fix this. I don't expect to be received well, but I would appreciate suggestions from the community on how I should also handle this AND my former CM. Should I try to bring them here to talk? I'm seriously at a loss for how to proceed.

To conclude, I'm SO sorry everything went down this way. You did not deserve this. I'll do everything I can to make it up to you. I kinda rambled in this message but I hope this helps clear some things up. ;o;

I've already given the design back to Haru, and refunded the buyer who was OK with me giving them a custom design for free for the trouble.

At this point I'd like to handle this personally with Haru and they can update the post accordingly if we come to a conclusion. ♥ I've contacted Haru_Totetsu to see if we can talk personally about this. I hope it can be resolved painlessly. I won't fight or anything since I didn't intend for this to happen in the first place. ;v;/ I still accept blame for it happening at all though.

Edited at 2017-09-14 05:45 am (UTC)
Re: Part 2 - ramthedragon - Sep. 14th, 2017 04:18 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Part 2 - haru_totetsu - Sep. 14th, 2017 07:45 pm (UTC) - Expand
RE: Part 2 - oceandezignz - Sep. 14th, 2017 07:01 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Part 2 - haru_totetsu - Sep. 14th, 2017 07:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Part 1 - haru_totetsu - Sep. 14th, 2017 03:51 pm (UTC) - Expand
mod comment - whoop_zi - Sep. 14th, 2017 07:58 pm (UTC) - Expand
whoop_zi
Sep. 14th, 2017 07:56 pm (UTC)
mod comment
I'll go ahead and tag this as resolved for you, OP!

Also, we'd like to ask that you censor the third party name in your email caps since, regardless of their involvement, this transaction is focused primarily on you and Demu.

Thanks!
haru_totetsu
Sep. 15th, 2017 12:24 am (UTC)
Re: mod comment
Edited all the links so that the other individual isn't mentioned. As well as the artist that drew me the piece for free (don't want them getting harassed for freebies).

And thank you to you and all the staff of Artists Beware, as well as to the users for their help and support in this matter.
Re: mod comment - haru_totetsu - Oct. 17th, 2017 01:33 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: mod comment - kayla_la - Oct. 17th, 2017 01:39 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: mod comment - haru_totetsu - Oct. 17th, 2017 01:47 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: mod comment - kayla_la - Oct. 17th, 2017 01:58 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: mod comment - haru_totetsu - Oct. 17th, 2017 02:02 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: mod comment - kayla_la - Oct. 17th, 2017 02:08 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: mod comment - haru_totetsu - Oct. 17th, 2017 02:19 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: mod comment - kayla_la - Oct. 17th, 2017 02:31 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: mod comment - haru_totetsu - Oct. 17th, 2017 02:41 am (UTC) - Expand
(Screened comment)
Re: mod comment - whoop_zi - Oct. 22nd, 2017 06:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: mod comment - celestinaketzia - Oct. 22nd, 2017 08:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
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