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Odd Situation Advice?

Hello!
I'd like some advice... End of November I ordered a commission with a due date of Xmas (last year), it was never completed, and multiple dates were set. I asked the artist for an update in June, and to provide a wip or a refund, they refused both and rushed my commission, admitting to doing so as well. They refused to do all the fixes, and eventually got a mutual friend involved who gave them money to give me a refund, which was confusing and not OK with me at all. (The mutual tried to refund me directly themselves and I said no)
But I got a partial and the rushed 'wip' theyre now saying it is. (saying the image was never completed and thats why it was 'rushed' when they told me it was finished and they rushed it on purpose)

I was going to post them to AB, but I got the image and the partial so I agreed not to. But they insisted I unfollow their twitter accounts, which I was going to do, but they keep venting and ranting about me there, and I capped stuff for an AB post on their attitude alone. They mention me by name on Twitter, and I got some caps of the callouts before I was blocked.

They are now doing it on FA, for the sole purpose that I can see it. And getting the mutual friend involved, to message me on their behalf.

I like their art, and even though their attitude and actions are something lacking, I still wish to see the art, and screencap the posts theyre making for proof for an AB post.

The journals Im screencapping are not callouts with my name directly, but worded to me, and dragging me through the dirt, so to speak. Theyve called me out by name on Twitter, and I know they are calling me out via IM/notes as people have come to me about the situation.

Should I continue to watch their FA and compile evidence? (Is there a point to this as I got a partial refund, but their attitude was atrocious) or should I unwatch and let them fizzle out on the callout posting?

EDIT I seem to have misworded. They do not want me watching their FA and thats what the journals are about. I like their art and wanted to continue to view it (I havent faved or commented on anything), and continue to cap the journals about me for evidence.

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Comments

( 26 comments — Leave a comment )
venatorrooc
Jul. 10th, 2017 01:25 am (UTC)
..I know that you agreed not to post them to AB because you got the art and the partial, but their shitty behavior afterwards and going so far as to call you out by name is going way past any agreement or civility in the matter imo.

I wouldn't want to work with someone like this (and I'm pretty sure I saw the journal in question the other day but can't remember who the artist was, so I'm concerned about it now).
teekchan
Jul. 10th, 2017 02:19 am (UTC)
Honestly, it's their attitude thats really pushing me to post them. Before I was blocked, their twitter had posts about me saying stuff like 'i draw freebies for my patient customers but not this one' and 'once this one commission is done im going to put so much effort in to the rest'.
leahtaur
Jul. 10th, 2017 01:51 am (UTC)
You agreed not to post them here and you sounded willing to drop the matter when they fulfilled the agreement, but they've continued to behave in a petty manner and can't seem to let it go. I think that's good enough reason to post them. They do sound the type to just use that as a reason to continue to drag your name through the mud and bring their friends in on it too so I'd be prepared for that.

A minor aside - why would you not accept the refund from the other person acting on the artist's behalf? If that's the only way I could get a refund for an unsatisfactory commission I would just take it and let the two work it out amongst themselves. (Of course, the other argument would be: why couldn't the friend send the money to the artist so the artist could refund you properly through the commission's paypal transaction?) Either way, it sounds weird that you were offered a refund to put an end to the whole mess and you refused it.
teekchan
Jul. 10th, 2017 02:07 am (UTC)
The friend wanted things to 'end nicely' between us (me and the artist, as we were friends before this ordeal), but the artist had already proven things weren't ending that way.

It felt like stealing to take the mutual friends money. They shouldnt deal with being out money because someone decided not to do their job.
rendrassa
Jul. 10th, 2017 02:57 am (UTC)
Once the artist and friend decided to NOT let it go after both parties agreed to drop it and end things, then you have no obligation to uphold the agreement. You're the only one doing so, after all.

Post a beware, especially include the call out of you. Keep gathering evidence, because if they continue to act this way toward you, it's more proof we should be avoiding them both. I certainly don't want to get tangled up with this artist or their friends/fans.
teekchan
Jul. 10th, 2017 03:15 am (UTC)
The mutual friend did nothing wrong, and just wanted to help, in my opinion. I was ONLY uncomfortable with them paying a refund that wasnt theirs.
rendrassa
Jul. 10th, 2017 04:02 am (UTC)
Whoops. I seemed to think some of the "they"s referred to the artist AND mutual friend. As well as this:

They are now doing it on FA, for the sole purpose that I can see it. And getting the mutual friend involved, to message me on their behalf.

My bad.
teekchan
Jul. 10th, 2017 02:11 pm (UTC)
Sorry! Im not too good with words. Ive been using they, as it's kind of standard for me.

The artist had the mutual friend contact me to get my paypal info for the refund (even tho they had me on discord) and to get me to unwatch the artist.
rendrassa
Jul. 10th, 2017 09:36 pm (UTC)
It's all good now. Just maybe use "the artist" instead of "they" if more than one person is in the main story?

I don't see why they have such an issue with you remaining a watcher. I'd assume they have you blocked so you can't "cause problems" so letting you keep viewing their art shouldn't be a problem. Unless, of course, they want to keep spreading the negativity about you without getting caught red handed.
missmise
Jul. 10th, 2017 10:17 am (UTC)
when a commissioner is asking for a wip or a refund, they get to have their wip or refund. imo, it was a poor decision to deny you both options and rush the commission when this wasn't your request as the commissioner.

imho, it's odd that the friend got involved and tried to directly refund you themselves. at a business level, your transaction is between you and the artist, not you and the friend. you paid the artist, not the friend. it's the artist's responsibility in this situation to handle the issue, not the friend's. the refund should come from the artist, even if they received money from the friend to refund you.

i think your wanting to post them up is completely valid, solely on the fact that it seems like they're broadcasting the situation in an incredibly unprofessional way. i certainly wouldn't want to work with an artist knowing that they thought this was an appropriate response/reaction in any sense.

also, i don't think you're wrong in continuing to follow them or deciding to unfollow them, it's ultimately your choice and not the artist's in that department.

no matter what the situation is, an artist should never go as far as to publicly broadcast the private business between themselves and a commissioner - or vice-versa for that matter - at that kind of a level. it's just not professional.
wuvvumsoc
Jul. 10th, 2017 12:07 pm (UTC)
You can watch the artist until they choose to block or ignore you, I believe. I am not sure, but I thought FA's block/ignore function makes it so you can't follow the person and fave their work. Unfortunately the knowledge base for FA is not up still, so I don't know.

I do feel if you post things online to places like furaffinity you have to accept the fact that any person can follow you, even if you don't particularly like them. But I feel if the artist is really, truly bothered then they would put you on ignore and not try to drag this whole thing public.

I'd say make a beware. I know sometimes when you make a beware about an artist they may want to cause blowback or potentially sic their fans on you, but it sounds like they've already been trying to cause blowback for you on twitter.
laughsatthunder
Jul. 10th, 2017 01:11 pm (UTC)
Talked to FA staff at FurTheMore: the block feature prevents users from commenting, favoriting, sending notes, etc. but does not stop them from viewing your content or being told when new things are uploaded onto the site, journals included, assuming that they were +Watching you before being blocked. You also still have the option to report them even if they have you blocked or vice versa, granted it has to be for a reason that breaks site rules.

... I only asked them because someone I had blocked for reporting artwork I had commissioned kept reporting my fursuit photos as "obscene material" and the staff site would let me know that they weren't going to do anything about it since, well, there was nothing remotely past G about them. They were just livid I had blocked them and kept making journals about how I was a "person of power" and "was to be feared."
dragontripmon
Jul. 10th, 2017 04:28 pm (UTC)
I wouldn't be surprised if they changed how the block system works.
teekchan
Jul. 10th, 2017 02:06 pm (UTC)
The artists journals state that they apparently blocked me but it did nt force an unwatch. I havent tried to fave/comment or anything to test this out though.
poizenkat
Jul. 19th, 2017 08:16 am (UTC)
to test you can leave a blank comment. it should tell you you've been blocked if you've been blocked, if not then it should tell you that you cannot leave a blank comment.
leongon
Jul. 10th, 2017 09:33 pm (UTC)
It's on the edge of drama instead of bussiness. When you refused a refund, even if was by someone else than the artist, you made an error.

The bussiness deal is already deal with from what you said, so there's nothing else to do about it.

An artist or anyone else making a public harrass show to you shouldn't land in an AB. You just leave that artist behind, and maybe make your own public statement on the situation, so people can have your side of the drama after reading their side. This is a personal deal.
rendrassa
Jul. 10th, 2017 09:45 pm (UTC)
What if an artist makes the drama part of their business? The deal was done with both parties agreeing to drop the whole issue and move on. The artist is not doing that, instead dragging it out for further drama. I don't know about you, but I'd very much want to know who this is and how they've acted so I can form a personal choice whether or not to ever interact with this artist in future.

Let's switch that around. I do a piece for a commissioner, get paid, all is fine. But. Said commissioner is constantly harassing me and making public statements about me. I'm not allowed to warn my fellow artists here about them? Keep them from dealing with a new stalker or harasser? No. This place is meant to help both artists and those that commission them to avoid the crazies and drama lovers.
leongon
Jul. 10th, 2017 09:55 pm (UTC)
It's not that simple. This person stated they were friends, and more friends were involved through it. It was a drama situation, but both parties mixed it with bussiness. This client pushed the situation further than necessary by refusing a refund when it didn't come from the artist itself.

It's clearly about friendship drama and break ups, not about bussiness anymore.

Of course this is only my viewpoint of the situation and my little advice: This client should jsut state a little journal with their version of the drama, so visitors that come from the artists posts can read the other side. But more importantly, move away of the drama after that instead of keep escalating both sides. But this is definitely about drama, not bussiness.
teekchan
Jul. 10th, 2017 11:18 pm (UTC)
I did not mix business with friendship. I kept friendship out of it except letting the situation go on further than paypals refund window, due to their IRL issues (moving, depression, vacation). Friendship has nothing to do with this transaction. Buying from a friend doesnt negate the fact that I was not given the service I paid for.

If I went to so McDonalds and ordered a meal, and they were out of it, and asked for a refund and they refused, and some random person offered it to me in line, I'd still say no. It's a morals thing.

Also no, I will not be posting any callout journals or 'explanation' journals in response. Not only is it against FA's rules but its tasteless, and would just cause drama.

There is no 'drama' here, and I dont see where you're getting it from? I doubt you'd post this same comment if I hadnt stated we used to be friends.
I bought a commission, artist missed several deadlines, flip out when I asked for a wip or refund after 7+ months, rushed the image, and is now badmouthing me. Where's the drama?


EDIT (sorry mods)
A friend has help me compile a completely anon journal to post on FA, as I am stressed with the people contacting me when I just want this matter over, despite not agreeing personally that I should post anything public.

Edited at 2017-07-10 11:34 pm (UTC)
leongon
Jul. 11th, 2017 10:28 pm (UTC)
Don't take it personal. My point is that you are done and over the bussiness with the artist, and now it's just a case of harrassment.

If you wanna AB them for harrassment after being their client, probably you can do so, but it's something you need to handle as harrassment in all the involved platforms instead of bussiness problem by now. That's my advice.
wuvvumsoc
Jul. 11th, 2017 11:13 pm (UTC)
I'd prefer though if we could learn more about clients or artists that engage in harassment.

I had a client who was stalking me and talking about how I hated him the adoptable I sold that he now has listed. I was told that was more a personal issue to deal with (even though this guy was like trying to invade my personal life and contact everyone I knew), surely other artists would have also wanted to avoid that?

I feel the same is the case here. I don't want to associate or do business with someone who can't behave professionally. We've had bewares entirely based on conduct in the past.
kell0x
Jul. 11th, 2017 09:36 am (UTC)
I would write a beware, they seem to drag this on and dragging your name trough the mud and being petty about it.
I like to avoid commissioning such artist please,
teekchan
Jul. 11th, 2017 02:07 pm (UTC)
Theyve left another journal about me, as I feared they'd continue the drama if I posted anything. But people have noted/discorded me over this and I dont want that.

Im going to write up a beware and think on it, as I thought people would just say unwatch them and ignore it. But I guess not? The latest journal again is about me needing to unwatch them but, and how 'I said I would'.... but I didnt? I only meant the Twitters. There's now rule or law against following someone, plus they keep writing about me so Im capping it. They claim I'm stalking them, so.. /:
n
Jul. 11th, 2017 06:24 pm (UTC)
I think I'm watching the person in question and I think it's worth writing the beware and posting it.

While part of this is a personal issue, it also stems from what should have been a professional transaction, and if they cannot conduct themselves in a mature manner with someone who was both a friend and a client?

A client who says the wrong thing to set this person off might get this same treatment. It's not fair to anyone, and it's for the best that they're properly exposed for how they're acting.

I had them on my 'to commission' list for the future but reading up on this and noting the level of pettiness on the journals? IRL delays aside, this is just extremely undesirable behavior to potentially deal with, as a client.

Edit: Just as an additional side note, if it was just one journal none of the twitter nonsense, it'd be something you should leave for dead.

But as someone on the outside of this situation that makes 3 journals that I've seen regarding this subject and they really need to let it go.

Edited at 2017-07-11 06:30 pm (UTC)
rayesesshyfan
Jul. 14th, 2017 03:34 am (UTC)
To be honest, the way they're behaving by not dropping the matter as agreed on, they really need to be warned about. It goes to show that they don't respect agreed terms at all.

Edited at 2017-07-14 03:34 am (UTC)
metallik_hasse
Jul. 12th, 2017 03:10 pm (UTC)
I want to avoid this artist like the plague.

I concur with others who have said to post them, I'd hate to set off this time bomb.
( 26 comments — Leave a comment )

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