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TOS Dismissing Unprofessional Behavior

If someone has "no refunds" in their TOS, how does that come into play if the artist is unprofessional?

Say a client pays an artist and the artist is nothing but rude to the client as the commission continues. If the client wants to cancel due to this behavior, does the artist still have the right to keep the money and refuse a refund? (In this situation we're assuming that the commissioner is /not/ at fault.)

Disclaimer: I'm not currently having this issue, but I am curious about what you think about the scenario.
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Comments

( 14 comments — Leave a comment )
celestinaketzia
May. 6th, 2017 02:29 pm (UTC)
I do believe that the last time this came up we had someone who is versed in actual contract law come out and say that it isn't illegal. The client agreed to the terms and such.

However, given that simply having one's money stolen for no work done is completely obscene this is where it's good to use your credit card if you have one.

Credit card chargebacks do not go through Paypal. Even if Paypal has already sided in the seller's favor, the CC company will do more to get your money back. Additionally there are penalties for sellers who continue to rack up CC chargebacks, and if memory serves me right, Paypal will drop a seller that has received too many. (Though someone correct me if I'm wrong?) The fees associated with chargebacks increase as a person racks up more.

But the best way to avoid all this is simply to avoid artists with "no refunds ever" clauses. The only time you are not entitled to a full refund is when work has started, and if the work is completed. If the artist is taking ages, hasn't started, and is difficult to work with you should be able to take your money somewhere else.
baronyiffington
May. 6th, 2017 05:56 pm (UTC)
Yep, the last line pretty much sums everything up as far as my thoughts on this go. I absolutely refuse to commission any artist with a "no refund" policy, and there's really no reason to commission them when there are so many other options.

In my mind, "no refunds ever" is basically a red flag factory exploding in my face.
teekchan
May. 6th, 2017 06:26 pm (UTC)
This. If I see it I refuse to work with them.
rebeccaannoying
May. 16th, 2017 08:44 pm (UTC)
Just out of curiosity, is it generally unprofessional to have a partial refund policy? I am not currently open for commissions as I'm reworking my TOS and pricing, but I was thinking of only refunding for uncompleted work. For example, if someone commissioned a shaded piece but needed to cancel after I had finished the sketch, I would refund them minus the price of a sketch. The client would get a full res version of whatever was completed at that point, of course. I was also thinking of offering a type of stream commission with same-day delivery, but without the option of refunds. Reason being that by the time someone changes their mind, I would probably already have the work done. Is that a bad idea? I've never had to give a refund before ; ;
celestinaketzia
May. 16th, 2017 09:41 pm (UTC)
Refunds for "work not done" if it's the client canceling is about standard.

If the artist is canceling it's generally considered good manners to issue a full refund.
metallik_hasse
May. 17th, 2017 02:11 pm (UTC)
What I meant here was if the artist has "no refunds at all" clause in their TOS.
I do partial refunds, mine are based on a 50% nonrefundable down-payment with the rest based on how far I am on the commission.
If I cancel the client gets a full refund.
leongon
May. 6th, 2017 02:43 pm (UTC)
Without implying that it is alright for artists to be rude to clients, I believe that the client should have a careful approach when doing business with an artist: Study them, see how they handle their business all around.

For example, if the artist has a "no refunds" TOS, but has good reviews and happy clients, you're pretty safe to assume they are just covering their bases against rude clients and not the other way around. However, if you see the artist IS rude to their clients, why would you do business with that artist to begin with? Bring your money to a similar quality artist who is doing things right, there are hundreds of great artists out there.

Now if you already got yourself in the murky water and your artist is being rude, best is to swallow your pride and go through with the commission as smoothly as possible, letting them be as rude as they want, and you get your artwork and never return to that artist again.

Instead of resorting to credit cards for more protection, just be more careful with picking your artist. Talk to other of their clients, buy something cheap first instead of going for something long term of very costy right away... so you get to know the artist.
metallik_hasse
May. 17th, 2017 02:14 pm (UTC)
"Now if you already got yourself in the murky water and your artist is being rude, best is to swallow your pride and go through with the commission as smoothly as possible, letting them be as rude as they want, and you get your artwork and never return to that artist again."

I think I'd still want to opt for a refund through alternative measures. If the artist is really rude, I wouldn't even have good association with the work, so it would be akin to wasting the money, to be honest. I feel like paypal would certainly side with someone if they had proof of the artist's abuse. I'd hate for it to come to that with any commission though!
s0duh
May. 6th, 2017 05:03 pm (UTC)
As far as I know, (besides the fact that it's not my favorite policy ever) a "No Refunds" policy can only be attacked when the artist refuses to work on the piece, keeps pushing back the promised finish date, or produces something that is of different quality/style/etc than what they advertised.

For a rude artist, the best someone can do (if they've already been denied a refund and accepted the TOS) is avoid them in the first place or make a beware about their experiences with the artist's poor communication skills (being that they're rude enough to warrant a beware in the first place, doing things such as personally attacking, using offensive slurs, trashing the requests made in the commission, and other mildly serious behaviours above something that does more than put a bad taste in your mouth).
Maybe not a beware on A_B (I think this livejournal is more about scamming/theft than hurt feelings, correct me if I'm wrong)? But definitely at least a journal on DA.
celestinaketzia
May. 6th, 2017 05:07 pm (UTC)
Every case is reviewed by the team individually. If someone paid and was being subjected to verbal abuse we absolutely would consider that grounds for a beware.

Customer service is just as important!
s0duh
May. 6th, 2017 08:08 pm (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification!
mortymaxwell
May. 6th, 2017 06:48 pm (UTC)


I give very little weight to reviews from happy customers. Starfinder started a testimonial page when she wanted to get back onto Fur Affinity, and awhile later, the admins on the other site ended suspended her for not delivering commissions.

What I like to do is note an artist if they have a clause in their TOS that makes me wary and ask them if they can clarify it for me. If they don't answer or give a snappy reply, then I take my business elsewhere.


Edited at 2017-05-06 06:48 pm (UTC)
metallik_hasse
May. 17th, 2017 02:23 pm (UTC)
I thought Starfinder found her way back on FA, but it looks like that account was suspended too. Several of my old posts on Artist_beware seem to have vanished, I can't seem to find my beware about her either.
chaossal
May. 17th, 2017 07:09 pm (UTC)
I would cancel if a artist was being very rude.
If they had not done any work and they want to try and keep all the money I would just do a charge back. But I also would not commission someone who says they do not give refunds as that screams scammer.
( 14 comments — Leave a comment )

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