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WHO: Victoria10717 known as "FurFancyCostumes" on Furaffinity

WHERE: Links to their Furaffinity accounts
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/victoria10717/
http://www.furaffinity.net/user/furfancycostumes

WHAT: Fursuit handpaws, feetpaws, bodysuit with tail attached (fursuit items)

WHEN: First agreed upon commission on the 16th of March 2016, it was also agreed upon that said items would be delivered to me by June 17th 2016, this is still ongoing however and they have not started the commission as I am writing this 16 February 2017, I finally worked up the courage to ask for a refund 2 months ago

PROOF: Proof can be found here: http://imgur.com/a/RAgOm
Proof is in the form of screenshots of conversations I have had with the maker

EXPLAIN: This all started after I purchased a fursuit head off the fursuit auction site "furbuy" from someone who bought it from the maker. I decided I wanted to upgrade it to a partial so I reached out to the maker as I needed it done for a specific date which I wouldn't be able to finish the parts by due to life circumstances, this was my only reason for commissioning the maker at the time so I'd have the partial to wear to an upcoming convention.
The maker agreed and assured me it would be there in time for the convention http://imgur.com/rCI396A so I went through with the commission and paid. http://imgur.com/HZDcMjl

I know artists don't like being bombarded with questions from commissioners so I gave them space and just assumed that they would work on it. Time passed and I hadn't seen any progress at all so I contacted them and they told me it was fine and will be done. I contacted them again 2 weeks before the date they assured me they'd have it completed by (as shipping from the USA to Australia takes 2 weeks) and by this point I knew they wouldn't have it done in time, which I was upset about but I let it slide.

Time continued to pass and I was getting more stressed and worried about the commission, I was constantly given sob stories for why the commission wasn't worked on (moving house, relatives dying etc.), which I gave her more time because of, however I was noticing too that she was working on commissions that were paid off after mine.

It became difficult to get into contact with the maker as they began ignoring my messages, I tried switching over to email on numerous occasions which were ignored completely, whereas with notes I would receive occasional replies.

Late September to early October I messaged her asking what was going on and she told me that she was working and making great progress and I started seeing a lot of work from her that she was doing on others commissions suits and I became confident that soon she'd do my commission as she was posting progress as well with her assuring me my suit would be worked on soon http://imgur.com/rrnAKmd so I decided to add a bodysuit to the commission as they also assured me it wouldn't slow my commission but be done with it.

Time continued to pass and more and more I noticed other commissions being done over mine and when I tried contacting the maker I was ignored. Eventually I decided I was putting too much time into this and it was making me too stressed so I wanted to put an end to it and as they had breached the agreement many times I believed I was entitled to a full refund and all they responded with was to follow their "trello" http://imgur.com/oT70pkB to try and get me to no longer ask for a refund. On other occasions I had told them they hadn't made a slot for me on trello which they ignored so even looking at that list, I had no idea where I was on it or if my commission was even being considered in her queue

Then the maker proceeded to provide excuses and reasons as to why they couldn't or hadn't worked on the commission http://imgur.com/AZ7StD9 then claiming that I hadn't paid it off before others she had placed ahead of me, this continued for a little longer with conversation difficult as they continued to ignore my messages

http://imgur.com/OhKbuo8 Finally I was able to get them to agree to send a refund and at this point I was so over it I didn't care about the 35% anymore, so I waited. I hadn't heard anything in over a month later after them claiming they'd send the refund that never came. So I proceeded with the Paypal claim, in order to actually receive a refund. I called PayPal customer service and explained the situation to someone there who told me that I was entitled to a full refund as they hadn't made a proper effort to work on the commission, regardless of what their TOS stated they had broken the agreement.

That's when they finally replied however I still am yet to receive a refund from them as they claim they "don't have the money to refund".
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Comments

( 25 comments — Leave a comment )
whoop_zi
Feb. 16th, 2017 01:54 am (UTC)
mod comment
Howdy! It appears your third to last paragraph isn't linking to the correct corresponding cap(the one where they ask you to follow their trello) in case you'd like to swap it out!
kichidogo
Feb. 16th, 2017 02:04 am (UTC)
Re: mod comment
Oops! Thanks for letting me know, just fixed it :)
spartanwerewolf
Feb. 16th, 2017 09:19 am (UTC)
http://imgur.com/AZ7StD9

"I don't guarantee deadlines unless a rush fee is paid". Okay, but by telling you "yes I can have that suit done/delivered by the date you requested" is guaranteeing a deadline. Do they not know what words mean?

I'm curious as to why you gave them more money to do a bodysuit when they'd already missed one deadline and hadn't shown you any progress whatsoever on the parts you'd already commissioned, though.

If you escalate your paypal dispute, paypal should decide in your favour. They've done it before with undelivered items, despite TOS'. Whether they have the money in the account is irrelevant- paypal will simply put their balance into the negative. They shouldn't have spent that money anyway; it's not theirs to spend until the product paid for is completed and delivered.
kichidogo
Feb. 16th, 2017 09:47 am (UTC)
They claim though if you ask them that they "don't do deadlines" so I'm not sure what that's about

I've already escalated it to Paypal as she was ignoring me for over a month and I had no other way to get a refund, her responce to that was posting an artist beware on me on her facebook page showing a negative paypal status on her account (not sure what the status is for, I checked paypal periodically and it's still stating that they haven't refunded me)

It wasn't the best move getting a bodysuit and I do regret doing that but I honestly thought my commission was going to be done after the one she was working on as she made it seem that way and there is nothing wrong with her quality
crystamartin
Feb. 16th, 2017 02:51 pm (UTC)
Because you escalated it pulls the money from her account while Paypal investigates, that's how she got slammed.

Even so, that's on her, not you. She doesn't get to keep the money and not give you the items, so that beware she made doesn't hold much water.
spartanwerewolf
Feb. 16th, 2017 03:13 pm (UTC)
What crystamartin said- paypal essentially holds the disputed funds in abeyance until the claim is investigated and closed. Once that happens, they'll go to the account of whomever paypal sided with.

Good on you for escalating it; no one gets paid if they don't get work done, and artists should be no different. She can get as snitty about her PP balance as she wants, but it's on her to keep the money in her account until the work is finished. Not your fault, nor your problem.

And regardless of whether she says she does deadlines or not, saying "yeah I can have the suit done by then" is agreeing to a deadline. It doesn't matter if those exact words are used.

Hopefully PP decides in your favour!
warriorwolfeh
Feb. 16th, 2017 07:31 pm (UTC)
The person posting this beware failed to mention that when the deadline was due Victoria (FurFancy Costumes) was being kicked out of her house by her landlord suddenly. They had a month to scramble to find a new place and moved 3 times in the summer. She communicated this and said she couldn't meet the original deadline because of these circumstances. I can confirm all of this as true because I watched it happen all summer long over facebook.
I'm not saying she was in the right, but the commissioner should have mentioned she had a REASON for missing the deadline. She didn't just "not do it".
Treveyon20
Feb. 16th, 2017 08:43 pm (UTC)
Actually he linked to the screen cap where she herself talked about getting kicked out and moving 3 times. Nevertheless the artist agreed to a deadline and then later said she doesn't do deadlines. So pretty much she lied one way or the other. That to me is really the main point of the deadline being mention.
sapphistscot
Feb. 16th, 2017 09:41 am (UTC)
You know, I could have sworn I've seen multiple beware posts about this maker before, the username definitely rings a bell and not a good one.

If you can get your money back through Paypal, do it. Otherwise you will just keep getting fobbed off with excuses or outright ignored and you'll never get your money back. If it puts their account in negatives then they shouldn't have spent the money before doing the work, it's not like you gave them an interest-free loan.
kichidogo
Feb. 16th, 2017 09:54 am (UTC)
Hopefully I do get a refund, I'm letting paypal sort it out now

I just hope she learns from her mistakes and doesn't treat anyone else like this
laughsatthunder
Feb. 17th, 2017 03:28 pm (UTC)
... It's odd you mention that, I swear I thought I had a beware on her on here too. I bought a fursuit from her three years ago, got halfway through paying for it and she said she was just going to keep it without giving me a refund. Granted it was years ago and she blocked me so I had to go through PayPal to get my money back but smaller Facebook bewares do exist on her.
celestinaketzia
Feb. 17th, 2017 03:33 pm (UTC)
I checked your post history, and there's nothing about this maker. If anyone knows of any posts that should exist, I can check the logs to see if they've been deleted. Feel free to PM me about it if anyone remembers anything!
laughsatthunder
Feb. 17th, 2017 03:34 pm (UTC)
I've written and contributed to -so- many posts on here or in small Facebook groups that it's difficult for me to remember, haha.
sapphistscot
Feb. 17th, 2017 03:48 pm (UTC)
I am absolutely positive that I've read posts about her dodgy commission practices - not delivering fursuits on time/at all and refusing to give refunds. The moment I saw the username I recognised it. *But* perhaps it was on FD_2 because there was also non-relevant drama involved.
likeshine
Feb. 16th, 2017 02:25 pm (UTC)

I could have sworn this person had a beware here already, but I don't see anything in the tags. I hope everything works out :(
novathefox13
Feb. 16th, 2017 03:05 pm (UTC)
I actually have personal experience with this maker, and have faced the same types of issues, I never made an AB because back when I went through all of this is didint know about it but this was way back in 2014. I can say that I still have her on Facebook and she uses it to update on commission statuses, but she also uses it to complain/vent as most people do on Facebook, however she also does this about commissioners, and I did see a post in regards to your issue just recently, and she then posted the link to this AB which is how I found it.

By following her FB unlike her trello or FA, you can see she has at any given time an average of 15-20 commissions going at once ranging from parts, to partials to fullsuits and justifies this and payment up front in full by saying "a suit takes a year on average to make no matter what."

I'm not gonna go off on my own personal experiences with her because they are long past, but I do know that you will have to go through PayPal to get the money as she always complains about money issues and, has in the past, had to take on more commissions to get money to pay off commissioners who wanted refunds.
spartanwerewolf
Feb. 16th, 2017 03:18 pm (UTC)
"a suit takes a year on average to make no matter what."

Haha, what? Is she talking about fursuit makers as a rule, or just herself?

I got my suit in around 4 months, and my maker is consistently working. I could see a year+ wait time for like... DHC or another big maker, but if she's constantly taking that long, she should maybe limit her commission slots to batches of 3-5, and finishing those before she moves on and takes more.
ime2667
Feb. 16th, 2017 05:46 pm (UTC)
This person always made me feel iffy. The way they communicate with their commissioners is just so strange and off-putting. Not to mention I'm salty they bought an adopt from me and made it into a suit and didn't credit the design to me, but that's just a hell of a lot of salt on my part.

I do remember having trouble getting them to pay for it I believe. Looks like communication is spotty on the buyer and seller end.
warriorwolfeh
Feb. 16th, 2017 07:27 pm (UTC)
Arguements on her side.
1. You never sent her a Duct tape dummy which she needed to make most of the suit
2. When the original due date came around she was being kicked out of her house, she moved 3 times. I can personally confirm this as I've watched her struggle through the whole summer on Facebook and seen the letters from her landlord and statements that were basically illegal for them to do but they did nonetheless. She couldn't work on your suit when she was hopping between houses.
3. She did say she will only meet paid deadlines and you never fully paid.

I'm just coming here from facebook with her points.
One thing I do agree on is she needs more communication with customers and a way shorter que, but she says cause she's just scraping by she has to sell premades. So she kind of got herself in her own rut by giving herself such a long que. If you can't pump out suits fast enough to live off of it then don't make that your main income. I would personally never commission her but I don't think she warrants a beware because you charged back without warning (you messaged her when it says to never message her on FA, message her elsewhere). She should have had the money to refund you but forcing a refund without trying to sort things out and only messaging her on one platform was your fault in my opinion.

Bad communication on both parties part.

Edited at 2017-02-16 07:31 pm (UTC)
kichidogo
Feb. 16th, 2017 08:48 pm (UTC)
I asked on numerous times when I should send the dtd and she said she didn't want it until she was just starting the commission (I have one made and I was waiting to ship it)

The only reason I didn't pay in full for the body suit was because she said she wanted the deposit and for me to send the remaining balance just before she started

I understand that moving out impacted her but she still was still living in a place during the first deadline she missed and I gave her time after she had found a new place too and she hadn't made an effort to start even after asking her
celestinaketzia
Feb. 17th, 2017 03:36 pm (UTC)
Her "arguments" don't particularly hold any water. She always had the option to notify the client immediately when the deadline was going to be missed, or not accept deadlines in the first place if her queue is that monstrous.

Additionally, she is welcomed to post here herself.
laughsatthunder
Feb. 17th, 2017 03:38 pm (UTC)
She should have had the money to refund you but forcing a refund without trying to sort things out and only messaging her on one platform was your fault in my opinion.

Except, she might never refund OP. After the other things that she's done in this post I would issue a claim too, I wouldn't trust her to just give the money back when she's got a free moment, assuming she hasn't spent it.

EDIT: Adding to that last bit, where is it OP's fault the maker can't bother to keep communication with their client? That's on them, not OP. It shouldn't be done on social media anyway, if they see this I'd recommend they switch to e-mail or some platform where they can keep track easily without having clients see into their personal lives. It isn't the client's fault she got randomly evicted (and, if you look at her past history, she's moved A LOT).

Edited at 2017-02-17 03:41 pm (UTC)
kichidogo
Feb. 18th, 2017 04:17 am (UTC)
They would claim that they do operate through email as that is how they recommended I contact them, however I did explore that option and didn't get a single reply whereas I would get the occasional reply with notes
laughsatthunder
Feb. 18th, 2017 04:22 am (UTC)
That's not good! FurAffinity isn't very reliable these days and I personally know that their notes system isn't the best in the world.
Cy Mendoza
Feb. 16th, 2017 09:55 pm (UTC)
I have experience commissioning this artist three times - two times were for partials, and the third time is for parts (for lack of better explanation, no head involved).

Victoria is one of those makers (and there are many) that, for better or for worse, just seem to take a long time on their commissions, though has a good track record of *eventually* completing them (if not timely). I'm finding this is more par for the course in the furry fandom the longer I'm in it, and the more makers I commission. One maker's list I'm in has about a 2-3 year wait. I think it's a poor choice to continue piling work onto a long queue, and many makers fall into that trap as they struggle to pay bills, so I'm glad to see Victoria has decided not to open her commissions until the queue is finished.

She is a fairly hard worker, as evidenced by her completing 2/3 of my commissions in the last year, but I think she did fall into that trap of taking on more than can be reasonably completed by a deadline. She, and many other makers I'm in list with, seems to be realizing that agreeing to deadlines leads to a lot of strife at the end that inevitably should have been avoided by declining a deadline (or even an approximation) and simply providing the customer with their place in line. It's not the best solution, as the best solution is giving the customer a solid answer as to when they can expect their product so they can decide whether the transaction is right for them, but it's better than estimated deadlines that continually get missed. A little honesty and communication goes a long way, even if it's "my commissions take a while, please be willing to accept that before sending money."

As you had a firm deadline that was accepted and ultimately missed, I can understand where you're coming from. It may very well be that your commission is no longer valuable to you because it didn't make it to you in time for the convention. That would have been the case with one of my commissions (unrelated to this), hence why when negotiating the price and terms I included a stipulation that failure to deliver the commission on time for the convention would result in a full refund request. Full, upfront understanding of party terms is always good. I think if you still enjoyed her work despite the missed deadline, you could have waited it out until your turn came along and you would have still gotten a product you enjoyed. That's something only you can decide though, and if the potential wait wasn't worth it, then the refund request is understandable.

tl;dr: Potential customers don't have to worry about her scamming them, but they should be well aware they're in for a very long wait time.
( 25 comments — Leave a comment )

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