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WHO: xhyra/ adurrgtables

WHAT: an egg adoptable that I also drew the larger version of.

WHEN: Was purchased from me several years. Today he posted it to resell it without permission.

PROOF:
Him selling it without permission: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/22519095/
My original submission: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/13741056/
Me asking him not to resell, which he promptly hid: http://sta.sh/0uv18sjgu24

EXPLAIN:
This was an egg adoptable that he purchased from me a few years back. I have always had the full that my Adoptable's cannot be resold for money. Only given away as a gift to someone or back to me if you no longer feel a connection to it. The adoptable was put up for resale today without my consent. I politely asked him not to resell it and the comment was hidden by him.
Before commenting, please read our Community Rules.
Do not go after persons posted about here, by leaving comments on their art pages.
If you have been posted about, please read I've Been Posted on Artists_Beware, Now What?

Comments

( 26 comments — Leave a comment )
kattotang
Feb. 6th, 2017 01:27 am (UTC)
Where do you say that your adoptables cannot be resold? I mean, in your "Character Design Commissions" and "Blind Character Design Commissions", you state "The designs cannot be resold!", but that only makes it clear that *those specific designs* are not to be resold, not necessarily *any* design you create. To avoid confusion, it should state in your adoptable's description that it cannot be resold.

This is just some advice for future reference; having said that, this person obviously just doesn't care about your rules, seeing as they just keep hiding your comments and ignoring you. That makes me doubt it was any misunderstanding on their part, seems they just think they should be able to do whatever they want.
ulariogryphon
Feb. 6th, 2017 01:33 am (UTC)
Ah! Sorry! I should have put that in the original post. My adoptable rules are here: http://ulario.deviantart.com/journal/Egg-Adoptables-Character-Design-FAQ-220169361

Which I do post a link to with my auctions and egg adoptable rounds.
spartanwerewolf
Feb. 6th, 2017 06:56 am (UTC)
FYI, the last section of your TOS is completely unenforceable. If someone draws out this character on their own and sells prints of it, there's nothing you can do- the design is not legally protected, only the original piece of art.

You cannot tell someone that they cannot make prints of their own art, no matter who originally designed the character. Designs have no legal protection, only trademarked characters do. Unless you're trademarking every design you do, you're SOL.
ulariogryphon
Feb. 6th, 2017 07:06 am (UTC)
Okay, thanks for letting me know.
wuvvumsoc
Feb. 6th, 2017 01:29 pm (UTC)
Technically I think most rules regarding adoptables aren't enforceable (I believe most of what drives adoptables are an 'honor system').
thaily
Mar. 6th, 2017 07:01 pm (UTC)
Belated response; I believe you are correct, the way I understand it, a character design would have to be trademarked to be protected. Unless they are part of a larger project which is already legally protected.

That said, a lot of furries work on the honor system of adhering to a TOS, even if they're not strictly legally enforceable. But I daresay that telling someone what to do with their art, which might incorporate a purchased design, is seriously overstepping reasonable demands.
kattotang
Feb. 6th, 2017 08:42 am (UTC)
The problem is I don't see this linked to in the description of your original submission. I'm assuming it was linked on a different submission that was the original sale submission? If so that should also be linked here, as definitive proof he was given your rules beforehand. (Though, I'm also of the feeling that if it's a rule, it should be put in a "Rules" or "Terms of Service" section and not just in an FAQ, but I may just be splitting hairs here.)
gatekat
Feb. 6th, 2017 01:39 am (UTC)
I've never understood this rule.
Why do you care what they do with the design they paid for?
ulariogryphon
Feb. 6th, 2017 01:42 am (UTC)
Because I'm uncomfortable with it being resold for money. And I'm leaving things at that.
fawkatronic
Feb. 6th, 2017 02:03 am (UTC)
This makes no sense to me and I am sorry if this bothers you but I really would like you to clarify this. Why do you only specify you are uncomfortable if it is "for money". This would make sense if these commissions are for a non-money currency like some kind of in-game currency, but they aren't. It would also make sense to say people can't sell them for more than they paid so people can't use you for their own profit, but this isn't that either. If it was about you wanting to keep track of your adoptables that would make sense too, but since you are okay with them being given away, that doesn't match either. I just want to know the reasoning behind this policy.
celestinaketzia
Feb. 6th, 2017 02:05 am (UTC)
mod comment
We're going to go ahead and nip this in the bud for being off topic. Regardless of why the OP made this rule, the client agreed to it upon purchase.

If users want to talk about the merits of various adoptable ToSes, then thy are welcome to make a discussion post.
chaossal
Feb. 6th, 2017 02:51 am (UTC)
While you can't stop them from selling the design you CAN stop them from uploading the picture since the art it yours.
Just report it and a Admin will take it down for you.
ulariogryphon
Feb. 6th, 2017 02:57 am (UTC)
Way ahead of you! I already reported it and I'm waiting for a response, but thanks for the suggestion. :)
wuvvumsoc
Feb. 6th, 2017 03:22 am (UTC)
I do think that being able to report the art and getting it taken down will make it much harder for the person to try and sell it. Not only does it decrease the exposure of the adoptable, but I guess in a way some people will feel hesitant to buy an adopt that they won't be allowed to upload to different websites.

Such a shame they aren't cooperating with you.
ravensmoon666
Feb. 6th, 2017 03:40 am (UTC)
If he's not allowed to resell the design is he entitled to a refund from you? If so I would note him and tell him, otherwise I do not think it's right to tell someone they cannot resell a design they no longer want and as a design maker I would think you wouldn't want it just sitting around collecting dust. As I highly doubt they would just give it back to you just so you can re-sell it and their-selves be out of pocket.

In the end if you forbid him 'from selling it' he has stated it has one other piece so he could just use that as advertising for it and whoever he sells it to just won't be able to use the artwork because of your rules.
wuvvumsoc
Feb. 6th, 2017 03:50 am (UTC)
I think the beware is less about how people feel about reselling, and more the fact that this guy willingly violated the artist's TOS that was agreed to at the time of sale, and when that's pointed out they hide the comments.
ulariogryphon
Feb. 6th, 2017 03:55 am (UTC)
Exactly.
I feel like people aren't getting my point of this post. And I think you explained it best.

And its not just violating the TOS. If he was polite about things, I'd be more lenient and willing to bend my rules (I have in the past). However, his attitude is cheering me off more than anything - the fact that he's just hiding my comments.

If he would have asked me beforehand and told me a valid reason why he wanted to sell it (needing money badly or what not), I may have said okay. Instead I feel like I'm being disrespected with him hiding comments and doing whatever he wants.

Edited at 2017-02-06 03:58 am (UTC)
ulariogryphon
Feb. 6th, 2017 03:52 am (UTC)
The 'other piece' is the original hatchling version of the egg adoptable.
http://www.furaffinity.net/view/13715887/

I don't resell designs given back to me. I find a free home for them myself. Usually I gift them to any of my stream regulars that want them.
mortymaxwell
Feb. 6th, 2017 04:23 am (UTC)
The guy certainly is violating your terms of service by reselling the adoptable.

1) I would suggest making your terms of service clearer. It was not immediately clear to me what you don't want done with your adoptables. I had to read through everything. A list of bullet points might make it easier. As of now, it is very convoluted and confusing. Your front page on DA also has a million different FAQS on it, making it hard to find information.

2) I also think it is relevant to this Beware that you said, after you caught him trying to resell the adoptable, you revoked his permission, so he cannot use it at all now. Is he aware of this and do you plan on refunding+blocking him?

http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/8066461/
ulariogryphon
Feb. 6th, 2017 04:33 am (UTC)
Thanks for the tips. I'll certainly take this into consideration.

In this case, I would give him a refund if he asked for one given the circumstances. But right now, he seems more keen on deleting messages and ignoring me. :/

mortymaxwell
Feb. 6th, 2017 11:35 am (UTC)
If I were in your position, I would log into Paypal, look up past history, find the transaction, and send a refund to the e-mail associated with it. You don't have to wait on the customer to say they want a refund. If you have revoked his usage of the character, I think you should issue a refund, regardless of whether he wants one or not.

Edited at 2017-02-06 01:52 pm (UTC)
ulariogryphon
Feb. 6th, 2017 03:07 pm (UTC)
Sadly, the adoptable was sold several years ago and I have no clue what transaction was his. Otherwise that would have been done already.
weisk
Feb. 6th, 2017 03:14 pm (UTC)
I'm so iffy on bewares like this. Like yes they did break your TOS and ignore you, but they didn't really do all that much wrong otherwise. They weren't rude (outside of ignoring you) and I'll guess that they likely missed that they couldn't resell because your TOS isn't laid out in a very easy to read way. Not to mention you say this was sold years ago. This just seems like such a minor thing to be up here for. :/

I think I'm especially more iffy on this one because of the things in your TOS. You'll blacklist someone for drawing/commissioning nsfw/fetish related things of the design? Can't sell prints of art if the design is drawn on the print? I see these so often in TOS's on dA and I just don't understand the point of selling designs if you don't want your customers to do whatever they want with what they purchased. None of these are enforceable outside your own personal blacklisting so...
ulariogryphon
Feb. 6th, 2017 03:35 pm (UTC)
I do plan on a long overdue rewrite of my tos because of this incident (my no print rule was abolished long ago, actually. I guess I just forgot to update it in that particular spot. ). While I don't agree with everything that you've said, I'll certainly take a lot of it into consideration during the rewrite.

Thanks for the comment.
celestinaketzia
Feb. 6th, 2017 04:13 pm (UTC)
Howdy! We will be freezing this. Please feel free to refer to rule 5.

5.   Do not comment in a post questioning its relevance to this community. 
(Deleted comment)
celestinaketzia
Feb. 11th, 2017 08:20 pm (UTC)
The right of first sale only applies to real goods. The issue with adoptables is that they are not legally defined, and you are in essence purchasing nothing. The adoptable market so far only exists on a good will basis.
( 26 comments — Leave a comment )

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