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Artist Beware: Biaknight

WHO: Biaknight, on FurAffinity http://www.furaffinity.net/user/biaknight/ (NOTE: Profile has NSFW material).

WHERE: FurAffinity

WHAT: They fell through on a YCH after giving me conflicting information about it being done, then jerked me around on the refund, then was caught getting commissions with the money they were supposed to pay me back with, and tried to drag the artist they had commissioned (LustBubbles) into it by lying about the nature of their relationship and the nature of the commission.

PROOF: Per community standards Biaknight's and LustBubbles' email addresses have been removed from the screenshots. They developed an annoying habit of responding to odd messages or sending new ones instead of just responding to the previous one, so some of the conversations had to be stitched back together or else have different titles on them. It does however represent the relevant information in order, all with the proper dates (the last three are not all dated, but it is one long conversation chopped up into pieces, and you can see the previous parts at the bottom on each).

All conversations should be read bottom to top. Some links contain NSFW discussion and languages.

Conversation #1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/k82m8s74iler9vv/biaconvo1.png?dl=0
Conversation #2 https://www.dropbox.com/s/utkgmxwlpd824me/biaconvo2.png?dl=0
Conversation #3 https://www.dropbox.com/s/xen2lln4wmehgb9/biaconvo3.png?dl=0
Conversation #4 https://www.dropbox.com/s/io1chfrbj7k347g/biaconvo4.png?dl=0
Conversation #5 https://www.dropbox.com/s/vhcauxh0ooefndf/biaconvo5.png?dl=0
Conversation #6 https://www.dropbox.com/s/7k1v817zsrhwyzv/biaconvo6.png?dl=0
Conversation #7 https://www.dropbox.com/s/b63imxzedpbmvs3/biaconvo7.png?dl=0
Conversation #8 https://www.dropbox.com/s/qa2c8x86246tb6f/biaconvo8.png?dl=0
Biaknight's Commission: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0vlxo13dygj9xma/biacommish.png?dl=0
Final attempt to not pay: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0cxfhsfup2kg96f/nomoney.png?dl=0
LustBubble's reaction w/permission to use conversation in this Artist Beware: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cfgxh23sw90fu3y/lustbubblespermission.png?dl=0

EXPLAIN: On February the 22nd I had commented on a YCH by Biaknight and ended up claiming it (the YCH post has since been removed, but we discuss it in the conversations linked above). I made the payment of $15 dollars (she tried to get me to send it as Friends and Family, but I refused), and was told they would start on it ASAP. March 3rd I was told that they had the sketch completed, and would send me a WIP. When it never came I messaged again on the 15th of the same month to be told they had done it, but somehow lost it. Rather than completing it "again" themselves, they were going to pay another person to do it and implied this process had already started without my consent and I should expect a WIP in about a week. I was not ok with this, expressed such, and requested a refund. They said they did not have the money to give me, but would go ahead and do the art themselves and have it to me in three days.

On the 19th of March they said that they had been too busy, but were going to go ahead and give me the refund along with doing the art anyways, and that they would pay me just as soon as they had money which would be a couple days to a week, but they could not do so now because all money had to go to food.

On March 31st, they commissioned LustBubbles as part of a sale, purchasing a piece of art for $12, three dollars short of what they owed me (http://www.furaffinity.net/view/19543925/). On April 5th I checked in again, only to be told they were still waiting on money. I told them I wasn't comfortable waiting longer and would likely file a charge back in no more than a week to get my money back. They told me a big story about literally just finding out they owe their school hundreds of dollars due to a misunderstanding, and that all of their money has been going to food, and they have bigger things to worry about than paying me back. I told them I would be moving ahead with the charge back at my earliest convenience as a result of that, they said it was a dickish move not giving them a full week, and that they would pay me a in a couple of days.

On April 11th they posted a new piece of art from LustBubbles, and made a point of saying for those who are going to ask about money, she purchased it before she was short on money. I checked through LustBubbles' gallery for sales and YCHs, and found where she had spent money on a commission when she had told me she was broke and all her money was going to food. I confronted her about this, she told me that LustBubbles had asked her to do it like that when in reality she had purchased the slots months ago, and she said she was going to block me once she had paid me back. I didn't believe it, and she said that what I couldn't see was the conversation she had with LustBubbles where she was asked to comment on the YCH as though just buying it, and said I wasn't going to get the money within the hour, and she even went as far as to tell me she physically did not have the money, only having $11 dollars in her account. However, after I threatened to start messaging people on her watchers list about it, she immediately sent me the money in full.

She asked that I not post any journals or make any submissions discussing what happened, and I declined, saying I was absolutely filling out an Artist Beware if nothing else. She insisted she was not trying to cheat me, and had only gotten commissions from LustBubbles before I had commissioned her, and at no other time. I asked for proof in the form of screenshots of LustBubbles asking her to comment as she did, and she refused to do so, even with personal parts blacked out. She said she talked with LustBubbles about things she couldn't talk to about with anyone else, and it was simply too personal to share even with personal bits covered. I pointed out I didn't believe her, she continued insisting that it is true, and she didn't know why LustBubbles asked for payment when she commented since she had already paid.

I messaged LustBubbles about it and relayed the story and Biaknight's claims. LustBubbles said she had no clue what Biaknight was talking about, she had never asked Biaknight to act like she was just then getting the commission, and said none of the commissions she had from Biaknight were as old as she claimed. She was also confused about the claims that they had strongly personal conversations, saying that they were not close friends and she could think of nothing of that nature that would have prevented Biaknight from showing me proof of her claims.

And so here we are, I thought I would submit an Artist Beware so that others can make an informed decision before commissioning this person as the whole thing reeked of a scamming attempt.

EDIT: Since more people have turned out to criticize me for being too harsh with the artist than they have to actually comment on what the artist did, I feel like I should add a little on here.

Here is the thing. I was more than patient with this person. I was more than civil with this person. I gave this person the benefit of the doubt. I treated them pleasantly and with respect right up until the point when I found out they had been lying to me, had cheated me, and was just blatantly avoiding paying me back. I was perfectly civil right up until the point they continued to lie to my face even when caught and threatened to block me when I called them out on it. And at that point I was under no obligation to continue being respectful, continue being civil, continue being nice. Yes, I could have filed a charge back and was content to do so before I found she was lying to me and had the money the whole time. And yes, I could have simply filed a charge back there. But I had a great deal going on and it would have been inconvenient for me to wait on a charge back, and after they had lied to my face and cheated me I am under no obligation to inconvenience myself for them or to uphold some standards of respectfulness or politeness that quite frankly they don't deserve. I needed it wrapped up and done with promptly, and so I did just that. If you have a problem with that, you are free to handle YOUR business however YOU like.

If you feel the need to signal how moral you are because you would never be so harsh as to threaten someone who had just spent weeks lying to your face and was spending your money while telling you they could barely afford food, by all means be my guest. If you want to say beware on me because you dislike that I'm not going to tiptoe through the tulips and play nice with someone who stole from me and lied to me when they were caught, knock yourself out. But I'm done responding to such comments. To be completely honest, your opinions on how I handled my business are completely and totally irrelevant to me. I could not care less.

You are welcome that I took the time and effort to let you know this person will scam you and lie to your face about it. Have a nice day.

Community Tags:

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If you have been posted about, please read I've Been Posted on Artists_Beware, Now What?

Comments

( 196 comments — Leave a comment )
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SweetPupperoo
Apr. 27th, 2016 06:17 pm (UTC)
Yeesh! What a mess D: I'm sorry you went through that. This person sounds incredibly dishonest. Beware well warranted.
mwebwing
Apr. 27th, 2016 06:35 pm (UTC)
The whole thing was a headache to be sure, but at least I got my money back. And I am glad that the Beware is now up since others will know what they are getting into when they commission her.
jebboy
Apr. 27th, 2016 07:03 pm (UTC)
I can't see the screenshots for some reason,maybe Dropbox doesn't like me or something, but from what you described that really sets off red flags.

I mean even if what she did with Lustbubbles was true it would be bad. I hope she doesn't try to drag any other artist into this mess.

I keep seeing artists asking to send money as friends and family and can't help but remeber a tumblr post that made the rounds a few times telling artists to ask for payments to be sent through friends and family so the money would be 'safe' from chargebacks and there would supposely be no fee to pay. I wonder if she asked for friends and family knowing you can't chargeback for that?
mwebwing
Apr. 27th, 2016 07:07 pm (UTC)
That has crossed my mind and is why I included it in the Artist Beware, so people could decide that for themselves.
(no subject) - jebboy - Apr. 27th, 2016 07:25 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - mwebwing - Apr. 27th, 2016 07:27 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Apr. 27th, 2016 07:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
adzuki
Apr. 27th, 2016 07:05 pm (UTC)
Well that certainly is a beware. Sorry you got the run around

However, I'm gonna say that threatening to message everyone watching them is... really inappropriate.

Like, they absolutely deserve a beware and threatening them with one is definitely in the right. They lied to you and spent money they should have refunded you with and drug another person into the mix with their lies.

I dunno, that just really bothers me..
mwebwing
Apr. 27th, 2016 07:12 pm (UTC)
I know it might seem drastic, and that is because it is drastic. But I had already caught her lying to me, she continued to lie to me and try to cheat me, and as we can see she was lying when she said she didn't have the money and she immediately coughed it up after I made that threat.

I dislike having to resort to such measures to get my money back, but ultimately I did what I felt I had to do to resolve the situation. Normally I would have filed a charge back, but when I said I needed the money I wasn't kidding and I wasn't in a position to wait, especially considering how patient I had already been. I would have preferred to have resolved it without threatening her like that, but in that line of thought I would also like to have not been cheated in the first place.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I understand why it bothers you, and it bothers me that I had to resort to that. But I did what I had to do to get my money back in a timely manner.
armaina
Apr. 27th, 2016 07:41 pm (UTC)
a suggestion to the OP and I guess anyone else reading this using DropBox - if you move your screen shots from the screen shots folder to the public folder, you can direct link images themselves without the weird DropBox layout and the link won't expire.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20324334/coolcat.png
^ like so

That being said, what the heck, you don't pass off a commission to another artist. If you have to do that just straight up refund your client. But I'm pretty sure it was just to cover the fact that they were using that money to get something for themselves :/
mwebwing
Apr. 27th, 2016 07:43 pm (UTC)
I will keep that in mind, thank you!

And yeah, that struck me as weird and I wasn't really cool with it. Especially considering that they would pass it off to someone else without saying anything.
kayla_la
Apr. 27th, 2016 07:43 pm (UTC)
I wonder how they were going to comm another artist to do this for you if they didn't even have 15 dollars to refund you with?
mwebwing
Apr. 27th, 2016 07:45 pm (UTC)
They were lying about not having the money :P

Wouldn't be surprised if they were lying about someone else doing it too.

Edited at 2016-04-27 07:46 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - kayla_la - Apr. 27th, 2016 07:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
Hunty Belmnt
Apr. 27th, 2016 07:49 pm (UTC)
This is really messed up and beware very well warranted. :/ Saying you would go messaging people watching them and dragging uninvolved people was a little bit much though. An AB post on its own is fine.
mwebwing
Apr. 27th, 2016 09:51 pm (UTC)
It was a bit much, but that was the situation I found myself in and I did what I had to in order to get my money back in a timely manner.
latiro
Apr. 27th, 2016 09:03 pm (UTC)
Echoing others, the next time you're having issues with an artist you commissioned, don't threaten the artist that you're telling their watchers against them; rather, threaten a beware post if don't comply with the art/refund.

Sorry to hear about the trouble you had with this person.
mwebwing
Apr. 27th, 2016 09:52 pm (UTC)
Well to echo my earlier sentiments, I would rather have not have but it was evident she was continuing to blatantly lie to my face and I needed the whole thing wrapped up and resolved quickly. Had I any other option that would have worked as well, I would have taken it.
timelapsedecay
Apr. 27th, 2016 10:07 pm (UTC)
I get that she lied to you (honestly, I have to wonder if she EVER intended to get you that art, this whole thing smells like a scam to me), but threatening someone with harassment is never acceptable, even if they're a potential scammer. That may seem justified for all the frustration, and I totally get that, but it's still not okay.
That being said, I feel like that's the only thing you did out of line, that and the part about starving. It was really fortunate that you didn't send the money as F&F, do continue never doing that, haha. It also seems like if you did file this chargeback, you have a pretty clear case for not receiving your items, and it is my hope they side with you

Edit: Whoops, I see they did send it back in your conversations! I'm really glad you got that back, at least.

Edited at 2016-04-27 10:16 pm (UTC)
mwebwing
Apr. 27th, 2016 10:20 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I did get my money back, I just wasn't in a position to wait on a charge back since the money was needed immediately. If people think my methods were unacceptable I can live with that, I simply did what I felt like I needed to do.
(no subject) - timelapsedecay - Apr. 28th, 2016 02:02 am (UTC) - Expand
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sacch
Apr. 28th, 2016 08:16 am (UTC)
Yikes at the artist- but I'm actually more put off by the threat of harassment than the artist's behavior, TBH... The artist is definitely in the wrong and jerking you around like that and lying to your face was shitty and definitely not okay.

But knowing you made that threat? Man, I'd be hesitant to work with you. I don't know what type of customer you are, whether you're easy or difficult to work with- what if you make and/or go through with such an idea just because you weren't satisfied with the outcome of a commission or a mistake in the communication process?

Consider what you say in situations like these, because when you post an Artist Beware, ALL angles of the conversation are evaluated; sometimes the beware even turns around and the CLIENT is at fault for something when they posted about an artist.

Your feelings were justified, but threatening someone with harassment is never, EVER justified or okay, no matter how mad you are or how awry a transaction went.

Posting an Artists Beware is doing enough. A lot of people follow and keep up with this community as is.

But geez, "I will continue doing so until I get bored"? That kind of statement/behavior is pretty scary, especially since many artists rely on a good reputation to get income. Whether the artist wronged you or not, that is NOT cool.
sacch
Apr. 28th, 2016 08:18 am (UTC)
Replying to my own comment to avoid massive amounts of edits- on a positive note, GOOD JOB on standing up for yourself and refusing to send a payment as a Gift/Friends and Family. Don't let that nonsense slide.
(no subject) - aendrl - Apr. 28th, 2016 11:16 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - laughsatthunder - Apr. 28th, 2016 12:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Apr. 28th, 2016 06:18 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - mwebwing - Apr. 28th, 2016 06:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - Hunty Belmnt - Apr. 29th, 2016 12:11 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - timelapsedecay - Apr. 29th, 2016 01:08 am (UTC) - Expand
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mod comment - celestinaketzia - Apr. 29th, 2016 02:11 am (UTC) - Expand
noxatrum
Apr. 28th, 2016 09:03 pm (UTC)
I only rarely comment here, but I wanted to hop in on this particular beware.

I'm glad you got your money back and that you stood up for yourself by refusing to send as friends & family [I do the same]. I'm also glad you posted this beware as it lets people know of the problems this person has caused & that they'll lie to get out of things.

With that said, I'm going to echo everyone else here - threatening to message their watcherbase was completely out of line. That's harassment imho, and while doing what you need to do to get your money back is fine - there are certain lines that should not be crossed or you end up looking as bad [or worse] than the person you're warning about. I've actually been in this situation before - an artist I watch had a beware posted and immediately this random person [it wasn't even the OP of the AB post] started noting a ton of people who they noticed were actively commenting on this person's things. It wasn't appreciated then, even though some of the behavior was definitely AB worthy - it belongs here, not being spammed to people in PMs.
noxatrum
Apr. 29th, 2016 01:27 am (UTC)
Yikes @ that edit. Beware on the OP as much as the artist.

I'm sorry, but it's never okay to resort to bullying and harassment and that's what this is. You can be extremely angry and upset and firm about getting what you are owed without turning to manipulation and nastiness - I have done that repeatedly after waiting much longer than this. There's a right way and a wrong way to go about doing things.

I also want to say - while I understand that you wanted the money back and they should have given it, had they given you the art when they should have [or after promising to] you'd have had to find other money for whatever difficulties you were having and needed money for, so excusing the threats with the fact that it was inconvenient for you really doesn't sit well with me. It doesn't excuse that behavior at all, and I stand by my statement that it was unwarranted. It's not okay to threaten and it's not okay to drag random watchers into your issue.
jellyfishee
Apr. 29th, 2016 12:42 am (UTC)
Beware on the both of you.

Why in the world would they pass a commission off on another artist? That makes zero sense at all, and I don't know how they can even think that's an ok thing to do.

Also, they never should have spent your money before finishing their end of the deal. That is not their money, so their financial situation is really not your problem.

As for you, it's not ok to make that threat. You shouldn't drag everyone else into this. I know I personally would be uncomfortable if some random person messaged me to rant about an artist I was watching over a commission gone bad.
kaiiju
Apr. 29th, 2016 01:15 am (UTC)
big yikes @ that artist, but an even bigger yikes @ that edit
sacch
Apr. 29th, 2016 01:23 am (UTC)
This. Wow.
(no subject) - jellyfishee - Apr. 30th, 2016 11:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
tifaria
Apr. 29th, 2016 01:41 am (UTC)
Whoa, dude... I was actually not very fazed by your behavior 'til that edit. Like, I didn't think threatening the artist was okay, but I also understood how frustration could lead you to that. But the edit is, um... yikes. I mean, if you don't care what people think, writing all those paragraphs is probably not the way to go about showing that.

I'm having a hard time understanding how a chargeback would have been inconvenient. If you'd gotten your art you would still have been out that money, so I'm not quite able to wrap my head around why you didn't just do the chargeback to begin with.
celestinaketzia
Apr. 29th, 2016 01:43 am (UTC)
As an addition: For those who are worried about chargeback turnaround times. I've had a chargeback issued and resolved within a week. Called Paypal, explained how the company was trying to keep my money and it was back in my account by the end of the week. The thing is to call and immediately escalate it to a claim.
(no subject) - sacch - Apr. 29th, 2016 01:47 am (UTC) - Expand
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MOD COMMENT - kayla_la - Apr. 29th, 2016 04:46 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: MOD COMMENT - DeadGalaxyX - Apr. 29th, 2016 05:25 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: MOD COMMENT - galagya - May. 12th, 2016 07:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
RE: Re: MOD COMMENT - oceandezignz - May. 12th, 2016 07:44 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: MOD COMMENT - kayla_la - May. 12th, 2016 07:44 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: MOD COMMENT - mwebwing - May. 12th, 2016 11:05 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: MOD COMMENT - celestinaketzia - May. 12th, 2016 11:20 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: MOD COMMENT - mwebwing - May. 13th, 2016 03:44 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - mwebwing - Apr. 29th, 2016 05:37 am (UTC) - Expand
spartanwerewolf
Apr. 29th, 2016 02:48 am (UTC)
Wow. I was on your side right up until I saw your edit. Now I'm gonna weigh in with "I wouldn't work with either of you"- her because of the scamming and lying and you because of the piss-poor attitude to commenters here.

Beware warranted on both parties, yeesh.
mwebwing
Apr. 29th, 2016 04:01 am (UTC)
I've only had a piss-poor attitude with people who insist on coming after me and sitting on a high horse talking about how they would never work with me because of how I treated someone who cheated me, or who otherwise feel the need to tell me how I should have handled my business when all I was trying to do was let people know this person lies, cheats, and steals and that they should probably watch out for them. To the few people who don't seem to fall into this category, I've tried my best to be pleasant with. I was even trying to explain to people why I did what I did before I realized no one was paying attention and just wanted to jump in and make their displeasure heard.

I respect that people have a problem with what I did, and to be frank it bothers me that I had to resort to such measures but ultimately I don't care one way or another. I did what I set out to do, Artist Beware submitted, if people would rather spend their time voicing how much they don't like what I did that is on them.
(no subject) - spartanwerewolf - Apr. 30th, 2016 03:44 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - mwebwing - Apr. 30th, 2016 04:01 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spartanwerewolf - May. 1st, 2016 04:26 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - mwebwing - May. 2nd, 2016 12:26 am (UTC) - Expand
mod comment - celestinaketzia - May. 2nd, 2016 12:29 am (UTC) - Expand
nisaetus
Apr. 29th, 2016 03:13 am (UTC)
But I had a great deal going on and it would have been inconvenient for me to wait on a charge back, and after they had lied to my face and cheated me I am under no obligation to inconvenience myself for them or to uphold some standards of respectfulness or politeness that quite frankly they don't deserve. I needed it wrapped up and done with promptly, and so I did just that.

This confuses me, because the thing you were threatening the artist with was an incredibly time- and labour-intensive note campaign to six hundred and twenty-seven people as of this comment. You felt that you had time to do that, but not to wait on a chargeback?

The artist shouldn't have lied to you. But I am deeply uncomfortable with the fact that you believe you were completely justified in this action, and I would not personally work with you if you think that kind of behaviour is okay.
mwebwing
Apr. 29th, 2016 03:21 am (UTC)
I'm cool with that. The truth of the matter is I am very easy to get along with, just don't cheat me and we won't have any problems. If that is too hard, or if you have a problem with how I treat people who cheat me, don't do business with me. I 100% support you.

That aside, the reason I wasn't going to wait was because while I was waiting on them to pay me back a sudden expense had cropped up and I needed the money for that. It isn't a matter of I didn't want to take the time to file a charge back vs follow through on my threat, it is that waiting on the charge back instead of just getting them to stop screwing around would have inconvenienced me and put me in a bad spot.
(no subject) - nisaetus - Apr. 29th, 2016 06:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
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