?

Log in

No account? Create an account

Previous Entry | Next Entry

Hi,

I signed up for patreon two months ago. And in short: I have overall monthly income around 600$. But I end up with around 400. I have it set as per two weeks. So I give them pledges twice a month while they are charged once a month but doubled.

So I receive much less money that it's said on the main page. It happens not only because people are declining transactions but mostly because they're pledging, after they do, they have access to whole patreon gallery (I don't know why they have access to whole gallery not only since they joined?) they download everything and change their pledge to minimum - if they are gentelman, if not, they withdraw their subsribtion right away after downloading stuff and dissapear. Until the next month, when they do the same thing. So basically they get everything for free when other people pay for their pledges.

So my questions are:
1.How do I ban patreon (Not delete but pernamently ban them from the list) and how do I ban patreons who are not my patrons anymore. (because they subscribe for 5 minutes and it's hard to catch them, and I want to avoid they do it again)

2.You too are informed via e-mails about everything, that you got message, that you got a new patreon, that this patreon changed their pledge, that your patreon just came back from the toilet BUT you are not informed that and who just withdraw their subscribtion? I have people who dissapear all of sudden and are manipulating their presence to avoid payment and I'd have to work as an policeofficer to catch them all. That makes no sense

3. Can I rearrange my pledges so the new patreons are getting acces to the gallery only from the day they joined?

I'm asking here because I couldn't find the answers on patreon site. I hope I will find some answers here.

In the end I wanted to share an opinion that manipulating on patreon with pledging is highly pathetic. I put a lot of affort in drawing all the stuff that I normally charge 100$ per piece. I ask for 5 dollars and people STILL tries to manipulate as hell just not to give me a damn dollar for the whole month of my work. Or are deeply offended that I am not giving them stuff for free because they can't affort to spend 2$ per month. The toilet paper costs 2$. Its discouraging because I can't even judge how much will I earn monthly.

Community Tags:

Before commenting, please read our Community Rules.
Do not go after persons posted about here, by leaving comments on their art pages.
If you have been posted about, please read I've Been Posted on Artists_Beware, Now What?

Comments

( 49 comments — Leave a comment )
celestinaketzia
Feb. 21st, 2015 03:01 pm (UTC)
The short answer is no, there's nothing you can do about it. Patreon has zero protections in this regard. People can jump in, get full access, and take off with all of your content all in a matter of minutes. I have personally emailed Patreon about this, and they told me they were going to get a ban feature rolling but it's been a while since then.

Due to this huge loophole, I have decided to pull my Patreon entirely. It's too much of a headache and I'm doing far more work than what I end up paid for. Also, that doesn't even take into consideration Patreon and Strype's fees which are astronomical when combined. I don't mind paying a fee for a service, but not when the service allows for such rampant abuse.
kazeno_taka
Feb. 21st, 2015 04:42 pm (UTC)
I really hope they go a step farther and implement a feature where the person CANNOT access content until their pledge is processed. I don't know what they can do about chargebacks, since that's on the side of the bank or credit card, but if the money is actually taken out of their account instead of them being able to cancel right before the withdrawal, I think it would cut down on this sort of fraud.

And I wouldn't be adverse to a big Beware post with a blacklist of pledge-dodgers. So that people know to block them as soon as they pledge so they don't get any free stuff.

Edited at 2015-02-21 04:43 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Feb. 21st, 2015 04:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kazeno_taka - Feb. 21st, 2015 04:49 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Feb. 21st, 2015 04:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - nambroth - Feb. 21st, 2015 08:10 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kazeno_taka - Feb. 21st, 2015 08:14 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - nambroth - Feb. 21st, 2015 08:22 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - altena000 - Feb. 21st, 2015 07:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kazeno_taka - Feb. 21st, 2015 07:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - nambroth - Feb. 21st, 2015 08:11 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - wuvvumsoc - Feb. 21st, 2015 05:20 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Feb. 21st, 2015 05:26 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - altena000 - Feb. 21st, 2015 07:34 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - wuvvumsoc - Feb. 21st, 2015 11:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - altena000 - Feb. 21st, 2015 07:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Feb. 21st, 2015 09:44 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Feb. 22nd, 2015 10:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
kayla_na
Feb. 21st, 2015 05:47 pm (UTC)
I deal with the same issue, best advice I can give to you is only release content after people's money clear.

People pledge and stop pledging on both of my Patreon accounts, the only thing I can do now is just deal with it until Patren devs do something about this bs
altena000
Feb. 21st, 2015 07:36 pm (UTC)
I see. But what if someone joins on 5th for example (So when the money should be all collected) and I will add new content then so that guy will simply get it for free if they withdraw on time?




So much complications!..
(no subject) - kayla_na - Feb. 21st, 2015 07:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ryuumajin - Sep. 24th, 2015 04:44 pm (UTC) - Expand
leahtaur
Feb. 21st, 2015 07:27 pm (UTC)
I know at least one person with a Patreon who simply manually emails every subscriber their content once Patreon confirms their pledges have cleared. Probably annoying, but I think it's the best way I've heard of to prevent this problem.
ramthedragon
Feb. 21st, 2015 09:23 pm (UTC)
That does sound like the only effective solution so far.
kisai
Feb. 22nd, 2015 12:39 am (UTC)
The "correct" solution is double-verification.

I'll give you an quick example. On one of the recent Kickstarter rewards, the artist used a service called SendOwl, to ensure that the people who paid for digital downloads were unable to just share the links around like with what happens with dropbox and such.

How you do this manually, is a few minutes before you go post a patreon-only item, you create a (salted)-hash list of the emails or other identity-specific information that get that reward, and just throw it in a .htpasswd list that applies only to the link you're going to give out.
so you might have something like www.example.com/patreonrewards/20150221/filename.png

But the password list will only contain usernames that have paid for that tier. You can set the password to the same thing, or use the email address again. It's very easy to create such lists. When someone changes their reward tier, they don't retroactively get all the previous rewards this way too.

And by "salted" hash list, I mean usernames that look like this:
(keywordorrandomjunkhere)_username
just to make sure that one can't bruteforce the next reward tier based on knowledge of previous reward tiers.

But this is a large maintenance hassle, so I'd probably reserve it for things that are "digital download" tiers and not simply links to a livestream or content that will eventually be public.


Edited at 2015-02-22 12:40 am (UTC)
thaily
Feb. 22nd, 2015 10:53 pm (UTC)
I've been struggling with this recently, also the restrictions on adult artwork; they say porn is banned but also that they allow work up to R-rating, which also includes sexual nudity but I guess not masturbation or outright intercourse?

But if I set my Patreon to NSFW I can't use Paypal to withdraw the money; there's another service, but it'll cost me 3 bucks to transfer it internationally and into my bank account, but then I'd want to save up some money before transferring it so it would be worth it, but I'm worried about leaving my money with Patreon. Especially since people can get a refund willy-nilly; are there no requirements for getting a refund from Patreon?

I was considering doing like a hardcopy portfolio reward tier, but I wouldn't want people to just grab their money back after I ship the physical items. :/

It seems like Patreon doesn't yet have suitable protections in place for the creators. Which is weird, because that's the people they are making money off, by taking a percentage. You'd think they would want to do everything to protect their cash cows. The fact they don't even have a ban function from the get go is mind-boggling.
celestinaketzia
Feb. 22nd, 2015 10:58 pm (UTC)
Howdy!

I've spokeon to Patreon directly about the NSFW rule. It only applies to real people. Drawn porn is fine.
(no subject) - thaily - Feb. 22nd, 2015 11:00 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - ryuumajin - Sep. 24th, 2015 04:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Sep. 24th, 2015 05:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - nambroth - Feb. 24th, 2015 06:35 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Feb. 25th, 2015 11:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - nambroth - Feb. 26th, 2015 01:15 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Feb. 26th, 2015 11:17 am (UTC) - Expand
Would you be interested in an alternative? - perldiver - Sep. 7th, 2015 12:04 pm (UTC) - Expand
Mod comment - celestinaketzia - Sep. 7th, 2015 09:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - staple_gunner - Feb. 24th, 2015 11:19 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Feb. 24th, 2015 11:22 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - staple_gunner - Feb. 24th, 2015 11:22 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - thaily - Feb. 25th, 2015 11:06 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celestinaketzia - Feb. 25th, 2015 11:09 pm (UTC) - Expand
wahaneta
Feb. 24th, 2015 12:40 pm (UTC)
Is it possible to post pictures off the patreon site in a pw protected album and drop the password to people individually after money has been withdrawn?
Different albums for different tiers and link one or all of them depending on who is paying what.
You'd have the change the passwords monthly...
It's a lot more work but would keep people from paying nothing for skimming everything.
As for posting updates to patreon you could have a generic "New posts in albums!" and every month mass email out passwords.

Nevermind that is all entirely too much work, Just keep mailing Patreon that they need a block feature :Y
kayla_na
Feb. 25th, 2015 02:36 am (UTC)
Dropbox pro now has the option of password protecting your folders
SolarStormStu
Jun. 28th, 2015 10:09 pm (UTC)
Same Thing Happened To Me Today
I got up this morning and I saw a Patreon mail, "Pamela has pledged $2.00". So I went to my profile (patreon.com/solarstormstudio) to thank Pamela for pledging.

There was no one there by the name of Pamela.

So this "Pamela" jumped in, stole my artwork and then jumped back out.

This is the sad state of art these days. Sickening.

I'm gonna have to do some manual work every month from now on ... sigh.
ryuumajin
Sep. 24th, 2015 04:49 pm (UTC)
Re: Same Thing Happened To Me Today
It just happened to me tonight.

This certain person did the same thing just to read my comics, seemingly and jumped out.

.......... he missed two or three newest pages that I send privately to legit patrons.

Shame.

Edited at 2015-09-24 06:03 pm (UTC)
BlankBoxComics
Dec. 9th, 2015 09:02 am (UTC)
Don't post to your feed then
The answer is simple - you don't post rewards to your feed, you send them in a zip file to the patrons email address and only put preview images in the feed. Some of the most successful artists on Patreon do it that way and it's the only way that I know of to make sure only those who pay get the reward - and obviously you send out all the rewards at the end of the month, once you can see who has paid and who hasn't.

lilythekitsune
Jan. 27th, 2016 05:29 am (UTC)
I personally spoke to patreon creators/admins on several occassions regarding theft and even THEY suggesst posting your work privately to Patrons that paid.

As of December 2015, anyone who pledges is immediately charged then and there. However, if they use Paypal and you post NSFW stuff (your account should be marked as such), Patreon BLOCKS the charge on their end as Paypal has the NSFW rule enabled. Not sure if it's still super strict but it's a thing regardless.

The best way to see if a Patron is legit is to check their email by emailing them. If it bounces back, it's a scam. Secondly, Patreon lets you see if they pledged to other people and how often. If you're their only pledge, ditch them. They might be legit, but if they are, they'll probably pledge again.

Patreon is surprisingly buggy and unprotected, so save yourself the issues of posting publicly. If you DO, crop the image somehow so anything that may be stolen isn't too badly lost. I made the mistake of posting my entire webcomic and it got stolen, so a word of warning.
(Screened comment)
celestinaketzia
Dec. 28th, 2016 06:37 pm (UTC)
Re: Exploitative Platform of Artist Continues?
This doesn't appear to be relevant to this post. It will be screened. Please do not delete it as it is only visible to you and moderators.
( 49 comments — Leave a comment )

Profile

A_B icon
artists_beware
Commissioner & Artist, Warning & Kudos Community

Community Tags

Powered by LiveJournal.com