You are viewing artists_beware

Previous Entry | Next Entry

  EDIT: The payment as of so far has not been revoked, however, the user in question has never explained himself why he yanked my funds, or even considered the fact that he was in the wrong. However, I'm rather disgusted right at this moment with Artist's beware, whom seemed to have focused on attacking me rather than answering my question.
1. Guys, paypal wasn't my issue. I got a guyfriend to call in and it was all good.
2. My legitimate question was whether or not I should expect him to make up for this mess.
3. Should I even touch the money he tries to send?


WHO: Saphiros off of furaffinity- http://www.furaffinity.net/user/saphiros

from his pony account http://www.furaffinity.net/user/twentypercentcooler.



WHERE:

http://www.furaffinity.net/user/twentypercentcooler



WHAT: Digital art of a fat twilight sparkle- http://www.furaffinity.net/view/9200009/



WHEN: November 6th during an art show, this was commissioned.
Shortly after, I noticed the payment was not in my paypal. I stuck an
UNPAID squiggle over the image and notified the user via shout that the
payment didn't go through. On the 7th of november he responded with an
apology and assured me he resent the money. On the 22nd of december I
received a note with an apology and another payment for the payment he
never sent. This time instead of ten, he sent twenty, which I didn't
touch because I was wary of the reversed payments. Shortly after
christmas I transferred the money to my bank account, at which point he
reversed payment. The money was drawn from my bank account, since the
money was in transit, and overdrafted me,



PROOF:

http://i49.tinypic.com/1o4vp2.jpg my shout

http://www.furaffinity.net/view/9200009/ the art

http://i50.tinypic.com/64dx03.jpg his reply

http://i46.tinypic.com/33lhyer.jpg reversed payment details

http://i48.tinypic.com/290y1pk.jpg the note saying he sent the twenty for my trouble



EXPLAIN:On November 6th I did a stream for 10$ full colors. This
individual twentypercentcooler asked for a fat pony for his account,
main account saphiros. The user's payment, supposedly, was sent to the
wrong paypal, and I just marked the submission as being unpaid and was
going to let it go, since there are a LOT of scammers nowadays. He
messaged me in response to my comment that the payment was wrong, and
apologized and sent me twenty to unmark the payment as unpaid for. He
seemed embarrassed. On the 22nd of December I unmarked the image, and on
the 26th I transferred the money to my bank, at which point he issued a
contest
with paypal. The money to refund was withdrawn from my bank account
with a $18.22 balance, and left me a 35$ overdraft fee for the 1.78 I
didn't have. The money, as of 12/28, after another user prodded him, was
resent once again and as of yet has not been revoked. Paypal will not
accept a phone call from me, the owner of the account, due to the fact
that I have a man's name and am vocally quite obviously not a male.
Their phone center is based in India or somewhere, I believe and the two
people I've talked to insisted on speaking with a man. However, the
reason for the contest was simply put that the user did not receive said
'physical goods' and I'm not covered for intangible goods. Sad day,
indeed. When I originally tried to post the ad, the user had not
responded. A response has been made, as well as payment, but I am afraid
to touch the money, since he has revoked it twice already. Even still
if I do get to keep the money, my bank account is in the red, and the
user has not been truthful or forthcoming with information. I feel as if
he's only made this latest payment to cover his own tail in the face of
embarrassment. I believe he has done this to people before, as there
are several cached hidden comments on DA of people commenting on his art
info about being a scammer. http://i45.tinypic.com/bgd3z5.jpg
What should I do? Should I expect him to compensate me for my loss? In
addition, should I expect a full explanation as to why he contested my
service? He blemished my record at my paypal and my bank.
Before commenting, please read our Community Rules.
Do not go after persons posted about here, by leaving comments on their art pages.
If you have been posted about, please read I've Been Posted on Artists_Beware, Now What?

Comments

( 44 comments — Leave a comment )
RadCatastrophe
Jan. 2nd, 2013 11:22 pm (UTC)
Wow.. that sucks :I
Personally I'd ask for the overdraft fee money but it really isn't his issue that you were low on money and the chargeback overdrafted you so I'd wait til someone with more knowledge says something.

Though I'm surprised to see that Paypal bases someones gender off their name and not the information listed in the paypal account. It's a bit sexist of them to be honest, but...
neolucky
Jan. 2nd, 2013 11:45 pm (UTC)
I've never heard of this issue running into paypal before. As far as I know, everytime I've called they verify my account regardless of what I may sound like. Also, as far as I can tell, everyone I've ever gotten on Paypal's phone has been in the USA and not India.

Which number did you call? I would like more information about how that went down with paypal, because this is something I've never heard happening before. And I am a little...doubtful of the situation as you've stated it thus far.
sigilgoat
Jan. 2nd, 2013 11:53 pm (UTC)
I'm also pretty leery about the statement that you got through to India. PayPal support is all US based every time I've had to call, AND when I've called places that did use India, I've spoken to both male and female call support without incident.
animecat
Jan. 2nd, 2013 11:57 pm (UTC)
PayPal and eBay both have some of their call center employees who are of Indian heritage. I've spoken with a few of them before and some of them can be hard to understand, but you can always ask to be transferred to another representative if you can't understand someone. But I've never had any problem with a rep telling me they refused me service, because they ALWAYS verify my account info.
neolucky
Jan. 3rd, 2013 12:13 am (UTC)
Yeah, I sometimes get someone with a heavy accent but...I don't automatically assume the call went through to India. Also, I just can't see them ever denying someone information about their account because they "dont sound like a male". That is hogwash.

However, OP apparently got information because they were told they can't ammend the transacionts due to "intangible goods" which is current Policy...

So OP, did you, or did you not get ahold of paypal? At what point were you turned away due to the sound of your voice/gender?
sigmoidal
Jan. 6th, 2013 08:28 pm (UTC)
I got a friend to call in.
eveshka
Jan. 2nd, 2013 11:57 pm (UTC)
Actually, that depends on the type of account you have. My account type means that when I call from an identified number, I always get a Stateside rep. But I have tested that, called in from an unidentified number and simply punched through to a rep and gotten a foreign voice.
oceandezignz
Jan. 3rd, 2013 12:08 am (UTC)
Define unidentified for me.

This holiday season I had someone somehow obtain my Paypal DC number and was making big purchases that got failed due to my limits(thank god) and because it happened while I was at work, I used my work phoneline to get my stuff fixed. The work number is not my verified PP number, but I STILL got a male voice that oozed Texan.
eveshka
Jan. 3rd, 2013 12:10 am (UTC)
Unidentified: A phone number that they didn't have on record for a Paypal account.

I don't have a debit card.
oceandezignz
Jan. 3rd, 2013 12:15 am (UTC)
My job's phone number is again, not my personal one which is connected to my PP, always has been even before I got the paypal debit card. And when I called them through it (work number) I did not get the "foreign voice" (I never have in my dealings with PP over the phone) so we can chalk this up to "odd".
sigmoidal
Jan. 3rd, 2013 07:43 pm (UTC)
I said 'india or somewhere' Both support agents I received had thick accents. That's my basis
sigmoidal
Jan. 3rd, 2013 07:41 pm (UTC)
I called their customer service line. Gave them my name, and their was a slight spelling issue, corrected it and she told me she would have to speak to the man on the account and refused me any more information.
neolucky
Jan. 4th, 2013 05:52 am (UTC)
Then I believe they had every right to deny you, because they believed you were not the account holder. I do not think its because you had a "girls voice", it's more then likely because their protocol demands they have the account holder, which is reasonable.

It's annoying, but those policies are in place to protect Paypal users.
neolucky
Jan. 3rd, 2013 12:19 am (UTC)
Secondly, your FA Journal here - http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/4174421/ states:

"So, the other day I received a note from someone that had yet to pay me for a commission. I assumed they were scamming and left it with a giant UNPAID logo.
The 22nd I received an apology and a payment, which I thusly transferred to my bank account. Ebay then took out their fees for my month, and then the individual revoked his payment.
Here's the result:
my bank is overdrawn by 31$ because of the fees on a 1.26 overdraft
my paypal is frozen.
and I can't afford my medications to treat the pain and suffering I go through with cancer.
You sir, are a dick.
EDIT:
Interestingly enough, paypal is a bunch of sexist pricks. If you have a remotely masculine sounding name and you're female, they won't speak to you because it's 'obvious that the account owner is a male'"

-----

Can you really pin your lack of medication for cancer treatment on this customer? Can you pin Ebay's fee taking and thus getting overdrafted on this customer?

You are leaving some very important things out here, OP. I do not think it's fair to ask for money to cover the overdraft fee, if you had possibly incurred them from ebay fees. The guy seems shady, but you at this point seem doubly so.
ryunwoofie
Jan. 3rd, 2013 12:33 am (UTC)
Woah, thanks for bringing that journal up. Yeah something is VERY fishy here.
deejthistle
Jan. 3rd, 2013 01:13 am (UTC)
Wow, there are... beaucoup red flags there. :c
mekania
Jan. 3rd, 2013 02:53 am (UTC)
Actually...this doesn't seem to contradict anything really? Ebay took their fees thus leaving the artists account under $20 then the buyer reversed their payment so they were overdrafted. That money belonged to the artist for completed services right? So it was their money to spend so I still think it's the commissioners fault they were overdrafted (even though it's my personal preference to keep my bank balance at no lower than $40 just in case!)


The stuff about the medicine however is just unnecessary guilt tripping.

Edit: it looks like I misread this situation a bit, though I still don't think it's contradictory. It seems the artist had ebay fees + $18 odd dollars in their account. Ebay took their fees, artist transferred commissioners payment from paypal to bank account, commissioner reversed payment before the transfer was complete so the artist was overdrafted due to the money not being in her bank account or in paypal at that time. Still the commissioners fault here. But I'm also not loving the attitude displayed in that journal:

"posted on AB. If this gentleman isn't one of the mods friends, he might make it."
Since when is that ever an issue here?

Edited at 2013-01-03 03:12 am (UTC)
neolucky
Jan. 3rd, 2013 06:06 am (UTC)
Yeah, I absolutely don't think the chargeback guy is in the right whatsoever. But at this point, Im side eyeing the OP for her strange display of "facts". A lot of what happened just isn't clear at all to me.

Like:

- Can you chargeback before a payment is finished?
- Did Paypal really snub her for having a womans voice? (Wth???)
- Why did he pay her $20 instead of the $10 she was owed?
- Did he pay her back + overdraft fees?

That kinda stuff is why I'm being so skeptical. But you are correct, it's not contradicting! But I suppose it's moot, because he's apparently paid her?
wolf_goat
Jan. 3rd, 2013 10:36 am (UTC)
The voice/name thing seems really weird to me. When I was younger I worked in a few call centers and it was quite common to get people with odd names or particularly where women had masculine names (not so much the other way around, interestingly). I don't think anyone who worked in a call center for any amount of time would be taken aback by it, much less refuse service.

I also can't imagine - if it did happen - just going "oh okay then" and hanging up the phone rather than asking for a supervisor for being given such rude treatment. But OP, if this did happen to you, you should definitely put in a complaint.
celarania
Jan. 3rd, 2013 02:32 pm (UTC)
Ah okay, I understand. You were looking at the $20 withdrawal rather than the $10 payment.

That's a little fishy although that just sounds more like an explanation issue. More like "I had $18.72 in the bank, he took $10, ebay $10, leaving me in the red."

- Can you chargeback before a payment is finished?
Erm, I don't see this happening?

- Did Paypal really snub her for having a womans voice? (Wth???)

This is what seemed really odd to me, but there are always oddball stories. However, if I were to take issue with OP's story, this is the bit I would wonder about.

- Did he pay her back + overdraft fees?

It looks like he paid her back, but not the fees incurred. She talks about how her account is still in the red.
sigmoidal
Jan. 3rd, 2013 07:50 pm (UTC)
1. No. Payment was finished. He charged back after I transferred to my bank account. There is a three day lapse on transfers, while withdrawls are immediate.
2. Yes. Girls don't usually have names like Michael
3. He sent me twenty to make up for the ten he should have sent.
4. He paid the twenty the day after I tried to post this article, however, I'm scared to touch that money as he could revoke it again.
neolucky
Jan. 4th, 2013 05:50 am (UTC)
Paypal may think that the account is not yours. That is the only reason I can think that they'd deny you any information - as protection to the owner. If you are using someone else's paypal account, it would make sense they would deny you.
funkicarus
Jan. 3rd, 2013 12:58 pm (UTC)
whoaaaaaaaa wow okay when has AB *EVER* shown favouritism towards friends/"popufurs"?

i see a LOT of big names on that list over to the left.
intj_reflection
Jan. 3rd, 2013 02:22 pm (UTC)
Never that I've seen. Looks like the OP frequents RP Chat Sites where such things are accused fairly frequently by the populace. Often they are correct or possess the appearance of truth to such an extent as not to matter to the userbase. My guess would be either attempt at humor or existing bias against website moderation teams in general.
funkicarus
Jan. 3rd, 2013 02:29 pm (UTC)
it makes it hard to view this post without skepticisim, though.

while the commissioner was clearly shady, i can't help but feel that maybe her attitude or business behavior might have lead to their actions against the OP.

it's difficult to take someone at their word when in the same breath of asking for support they're insulting you and implying you're in cahoots with the person causing them problems.
intj_reflection
Jan. 3rd, 2013 06:39 pm (UTC)
I actually agree with you entirely. Artists/commissioners are as human as anyone and can make mistakes or badly timed jokes, but when anyone acts in a way that reflects badly upon their professionalism or attitude it detracts from their case.
sigmoidal
Jan. 3rd, 2013 07:51 pm (UTC)
bingo. "attempt at humor or existing bias against website moderation teams in general."
neolucky
Jan. 4th, 2013 05:46 am (UTC)
I'm not sure it was the smartest move, considering you were making a snide comment about the moderation that was deliberating over your post. If you had such little faith in our bias, then why post something here? Reading that left a sour taste in my mouth, honestly.

We see this stuff, it doesn't reflect well ya know? Just something to think about.
celarania
Jan. 3rd, 2013 05:19 am (UTC)
This doesn't seem to contradict anything to me.

Let's say OP has $100 in their bank account, ebay takes out expected $82 and change fee, leaving $17 and change. OP gets hit for $20 payment revoke grabbing $20 from their account. This leaves them $1.26 in the hole. Bank gets angry that the balance is in the negative and slaps on $30 fine leaving OP at -$31.26?

How is that not what OP posted? OP had enough for the ebay fee, not ebay fee and a surprise chargeback. (Not to mention OP had already done the work, so it was her money to spend.)

Am I missing something?
neolucky
Jan. 3rd, 2013 06:07 am (UTC)
Discussion above you, I won't repeat it here since it's redundant.
sigmoidal
Jan. 3rd, 2013 07:52 pm (UTC)
I actually was asking if it was his fault or mine.
celarania
Jan. 3rd, 2013 08:55 pm (UTC)
While I think you could avoid being in this situation, I'd say it's his fault. You completed your end of the bargain, delivered your product, and then finally got paid for the work you've already done. You did absolutely 100% nothing wrong. He charged-back after receiving his product. That is wrong. The person who handled the transaction exactly as it should have been handled isn't the one at fault and really shouldn't be out the money.

Now will you be able to get him to pay you for how he wronged you? Would be nice, but isn't likely (realistically speaking). But who should pay? The one who screwed up the transaction.
glaciers
Jan. 3rd, 2013 09:00 pm (UTC)
the journal has been deleted... not sure what to make of that :/
neolucky
Jan. 4th, 2013 05:47 am (UTC)
This is why I copy and pasted it, I had a feeling it would eventually be removed. Granted a screenshot would be good, but I didn't think it was too terribly necessary.
glaciers
Jan. 4th, 2013 11:36 pm (UTC)
oh no not to worry, I wasn't questioning your choice to copypaste, moreso the fact it has been removed in the first place!
mekania
Jan. 3rd, 2013 03:03 am (UTC)
First things first send paypal an email (you can always do this when you're having problems with your account) through the account it's linked to. Inform them that when you call them you are not able to be helped because they're under the mistaken belief that you're a man and tell them your issue and that you would like to handle this situation on the phone. As long as you have all your info there shouldn't be any trouble.

Second, call your bank or go in and speak to a teller. Explain the situation without being aggressive about it and they will likely wave your overdraft for you if this isn't a common issue with your account.

Also I wouldn't assume a customer service person was outsourced just because they have an accent and then you claim sexism? Yeah that doesn't really reflect well on you.
stormrunner1981
Jan. 3rd, 2013 03:40 am (UTC)
I'm going to call null on the PayPal not letting you talk to them because you have a guy's name.

I'm a woman with a very feminine name, but I don't exactly have the most feminine voice - especially when I'm sick with a raspy throat.

I had to call PayPal on one of said days, and other then being called sir once they had no issue talking to me with my net pin and other info.

The only thing that may have happened is you got a bad rep but you could have called back for another or even asked for another.
timelapsedecay
Jan. 3rd, 2013 11:05 am (UTC)
This.
Biologically female and my first name is Desirae, and I still get called sir for my voice. Same situation, called paypal and such, still had no issues accessing my account.
The alleged issue mentioned by OP seems a little far-fetched, at least about that part.
mmyesidosay
Jan. 3rd, 2013 04:13 pm (UTC)
Chiming in too, I have a man's name, and a pretty feminine voice, and I've not had an issue with that when I had to call in. :S
sigmoidal
Jan. 3rd, 2013 07:54 pm (UTC)
Welp. I had an issue. That end of everything is not something I can prove or really even pertinent to my problem. It just added to my exacerbation at the whole situation.
taasla
Jan. 3rd, 2013 09:44 pm (UTC)
I would call back and ask to speak to a senior supervisor. Someone refusing you service because of your name is a no-no.
glaciers
Jan. 3rd, 2013 09:03 pm (UTC)
From my knowledge (somebody correct me if I'm wrong), having payment sent as "services" and not goods circumvents the whole intangibility of digital art issue...

either way, that sucks, and I'm sorry it happened to you :C

Edited at 2013-01-03 09:03 pm (UTC)
RadCatastrophe
Jan. 4th, 2013 07:21 am (UTC)
It does, since you're actually doing a service and not producing a good (which would be a tangible thing such as a traditional piece).
glaciers
Jan. 4th, 2013 11:37 pm (UTC)
ahh good to have clarified, thank you!
( 44 comments — Leave a comment )

Profile

A_B icon
artists_beware
Commissioner & Artist, Warning & Kudos Community

Tags

Powered by LiveJournal.com