?

Log in

Previous Entry | Next Entry

Hello, all.
I've recently joined this community because I haven't found a good answer anywhere for this question.


UNEDITED QUESTION, MY RESPONSE, AND MY THOUGHTS ABOUT THE SCENARIO

How do I politely tell a (usually persistent) person that I do not want to arrange an art trade? As you can imagine, the usual reason for declining the trade is that the other artist's skill level is considerably lower than mine--but, saying that just sounds mean, and when I've tried to word it with more tact, the message either goes over the person's head, or the person INSISTS that there is nothing wrong with his or her lack of anatomy/shading knowledge/crayon doodles. The usual excuse is, "Everyone has a different style! Therefore, our styles are equal and you should let me trade with you!" And, of course, at this point it is usually impossible to explain to this person that a foundation/base of properties of the real world(anatomy, perspective, etc.) must be formed before style. (At least, this statement should be true for my example situation posed here. =) )

I've tried Google searching "decline an art trade," "say no to an art trade," etc. I've looked through previous journal tags here with 'trade' in them as well.

The perfect chance to address this question came up lately in a conversation on Deviantart(I've hidden all the messages to protect the artist's identity):


Anonymous Artist: Nice art!

Me: Thank you!

Anonymous Artist: Do you do art trades?

Me: If I like the other artist's style enough... I browsed through your gallery, and your art seems a bit too simple for what I'd draw in return. If you really want some art from me, I prefer commissions!

Anonymous Artist: a see your point. you see my newest 4 were commission or requests and for those, the person already knows what to expect. I have more than one style of art for my cats foxes and dogs but havent uploaded any yet, if u prefer a style give me the link and i can tell you if i can draw that or if i use that style or not

Me: Basically, if you look at my rules on my journal:

"Trades: Equal skill level at a minimum is a MUST. I probably won't agree to an art trade if the asking artist cannot sell his/her pieces for the prices I put on my own commissions. I have the right to refuse a trade if I don't like the style, sorry!"

So, I don't think you're making money off commissions yet, let alone $30-40 for an art piece. I'll have to decline this art trade. Thank you for your interest though!

----------------------------------------------------------


Did I handle that properly? I've never figured out how to politely say no to art trades I don't want to do. I used to say, "I don't have the time." But then, people who want to trade with me ask when I WILL have the time. Sometimes, after I've done art trades with other people, artists I've declined before ask again("She had the free time to do those other trades, so surely she has time for me now!").

And if I say, "Sorry, no, I don't do art trades," people I don't want to trade with will label me as a liar when they see me do future trades with others. Awkwaard.

I can't think of any other response besides saying no and then telling them why, but I'm afraid they'll take offense to that. Do you think there's a better way of handling this?

Also note that this person worded the question as, "Do you do art trades?" instead of, "Would you like to do an art trade with me?" I don't know if the wording was intentional, but asking the question the first way complicates things, as if I said, "Yes," the person might take that as a guaranteed art trade.


Touchy subject and wording are touchy. @w@

If you know of a useful link about declining art trades, I'd be more than happy to look at it as well. Surely I'm not the only one who has encountered this sort of situation before!

Thank you for reading. =)

-----------------------------------------------------------

UPDATE: here's a new reply from Anonymous Artist continuing from the conversation above:

Anonymous Artist: awww. i could its just i dunt have paypal yet XD


Hehe, so the first who mentioned it, Kayla_La, you were right about how simply saying "No thanks not interested" is the best policy. Because here, THE LOGIC. IT DOES NOT WORK. I think I tossed 2-3 reasons why I wouldn't take the trade, and every time this person has made up a way around the reason. The last one has got to be the most ridiculous... In my experience so far, I haven't seen someone give $30-$40 for a single art piece of her skill range. Heeere it looks like she's assuming she can, maybe easily? It overall sounds like another excuse to try to convince me to pick up the art trade. I'm dropping the conversation with her.

And thanks miryhis, for mentioning that considering trades based on how much others can sell their art for is not always reliable, since there is so much variation in "better skilled" artists selling art for low and "less skilled" artists selling for high. I actually got the idea from another artist who seemed to be doing pretty well on trades via that as a general rule. Although that reasoning was logical to me, it sure might not be to the artist trying to trade with you, as shown in my case.

One more thing from owl_eyes_4ever that was WAY too interesting not to quote in regards to comments: "Amusingly enough, so much of that goes for turning down someone's romantic advances."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CONCLUSIONS(so far)

So I screwed up, like, big time in my response to Anonymous Artist. I screwed up SO big time, I should change the title of this post to "How does one decline an art trade like a butthole?" (Nicely put.)

I didn't know that a simple no would suffice to decline an art trade. So, I also explained to Anonymous Artist that I didn't want to do the trade because her art "seem[ed] a bit too simple for what I'd draw in return." I thought that would end the conversation, but Anonymous Artist thought my reasoning was wrong. So, I tried to reason with her that I wasn't interested in her art because I was looking for art of a higher skill level, and I brought up my rules which stated I'd be more interested if she could sell her art at equivalent prices to mine. She still didn't give up after that though, so I dropped contact with her. Then, I included my thoughts on this Artist Beware entry about how she was still trying to "convince me to pick up the art trade" by claiming that she could sell her art at $30-40, even though she had never taken money commissions before.

There are THREE big no-no's I made here.

1. I gave an explanation of why I didn't want to do the trade.
Kayla_La: "Honestly, don't even give them a reason. Why do you need to? They don't need one." By giving the reason I was declining the art trade, I left the matter open for argument. A "No thank you, thanks for the interest" was all I needed.
It was my first time saying no to an art trade I was not interested in, so I thought an explanation would be the polite thing to do. Not in this case; it brought more trouble instead!

2 and 3. I brought up the artist's skill and ability to sell art as grounds for declining the art trade.
miryhis: [Your rule about] "not trading with someone who would doesn't sell their art for as much as I do" seems kind of iffy."
celarania: "You said that her art was worth very little and she was below your skill level. Even if that is all true, you're still not professional for saying it. You wouldn't want to ask someone out for them to say "I only date 8's or higher and you're lucky if you're a 6." Whether or not it's true, it's not helpful and only serves to demoralize."

The last thing I said to Anonymous Artist:
"Trades: Equal skill level at a minimum is a MUST. I probably won't agree to an art trade if the asking artist cannot sell his/her pieces for the prices I put on my own commissions. I have the right to refuse a trade if I don't like the style, sorry!"
So, I don't think you're making money off commissions yet, let alone $30-40 for an art piece. I'll have to decline this art trade. Thank you for your interest though!


I saw my posting of my rules to her as a reminder that I was not obligated to do the trade, and that there were valid reasons I could refuse(Namely, I used the commission price comparison to try to gently hint that I wasn't looking for something at her current skill level.)

Ok, so I'm taking advice here and there from the comments so far, how others have dealt with it, and most of the responses are neutral to "You handled it fine, this is ok." So I did not see this next part coming. At all.

Celarania (and many others!) saw my reasoning as belittling Anonymous Artist, and I did not realize that it sounded like this at all until they pointed it out. Belittling was not my intention, but because that's what my lack of tact looked like, I was accused of being arrogant, and scoffing at artists with less skill. (You should really read the comments here! Interesting stuff!) I ended up probably offending Anonymous Artist AND half of the artists who have ever skimmed this post. Whoops.
Well, I had to learn somehow, and I'm glad so many here weren't afraid to point that out.
Bottom line, say "No thanks, but thank you for the interest," and you're done declining an art trade. An explanation might weave itself into the really messed up monstrosity you see here.

So, thank you for all the advice. You guys are awesome, and I would probably still be quite tactless about this if I hadn't asked. <3

I'm going to leave everything I said exactly, unedited, in the hopes that everything that went under debate in this entry will be useful for other artists. Let me know if anything looks like it needs to be changed, or worded better!

Community Tags:

Before commenting, please read our Community Rules.
Do not go after persons posted about here, by leaving comments on their art pages.
If you have been posted about, please read I've Been Posted on Artists_Beware, Now What?

Comments

( 116 comments — Leave a comment )
Page 1 of 2
<<[1] [2] >>
kayla_la
Oct. 3rd, 2011 02:22 am (UTC)
Honestly, don't even give them a reason. Why do you need to? They don't need one. Here, here's how I do it:

Them: Would you be up for an art trade?

Me: No thank you, thank you for the interest though!

Them 99% of the time: Okay, thanks anyway!


Easy, nothing insulting about it, and it doesn't give them room to argue.
lyrit_twilight
Oct. 3rd, 2011 04:27 am (UTC)
Simple and clear, and exactly what I needed. Thank you so much! ^^
(no subject) - mukichan - Oct. 6th, 2011 05:08 pm (UTC) - Expand
sigilgoat
Oct. 3rd, 2011 02:24 am (UTC)
I'm pretty terrible at knowing this myself, I'm looking forward to reading the replies!

Kayla, how are you so good at being direct?!?!?!
kayla_la
Oct. 3rd, 2011 02:32 am (UTC)
Haha, I don't want to say I don't care about hurting people's feelings because that's not it at all and I try not to offend people. It's just that it's terribly inefficient to give people openings and false hope and that's what happens when you do stuff like the OP listed. It's just SO MUCH easier to be upfront with people, even if it miffs them a little bit.

That and, a lot of the times, when a low level artist is approaching a particularly higher level one for a trade, it's because they're trying to take advantage of them, and I'm not interested in humouring that. If they want art from me and it wouldn't be a fair trade, they can commission me like everyone else.
(no subject) - dripbat - Oct. 3rd, 2011 02:36 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - Oct. 3rd, 2011 02:39 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - dripbat - Oct. 3rd, 2011 02:42 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - crssafox - Oct. 4th, 2011 04:29 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sigilgoat - Oct. 3rd, 2011 02:39 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - owl_eyes_4ever - Oct. 3rd, 2011 02:43 am (UTC) - Expand
(Deleted comment)
(no subject) - kayla_la - Oct. 3rd, 2011 02:54 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ryunwoofie - Oct. 3rd, 2011 03:24 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - Oct. 3rd, 2011 03:29 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ryunwoofie - Oct. 3rd, 2011 03:38 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lyrit_twilight - Oct. 3rd, 2011 04:31 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - Oct. 3rd, 2011 04:34 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lyrit_twilight - Oct. 3rd, 2011 04:57 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - Oct. 3rd, 2011 05:20 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lyrit_twilight - Oct. 3rd, 2011 05:58 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - hellfire99x - Oct. 3rd, 2011 11:47 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Oct. 3rd, 2011 07:14 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Oct. 3rd, 2011 07:12 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lyrit_twilight - Oct. 3rd, 2011 03:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
frazzled_niya
Oct. 3rd, 2011 02:25 am (UTC)
Kayla has the right idea. But I think what you said should have been straight forward enough and you weren't rude or anything so don't worry.
ruins_of_sodom
Oct. 3rd, 2011 02:32 am (UTC)
Indeed, Kayla's got it.

Personally I just reply that I only do art trades with friends.
kayla_la
Oct. 3rd, 2011 02:33 am (UTC)
Do you ever get people trying to become your friend just to trade with you? I'd be worried about that.
(no subject) - ruins_of_sodom - Oct. 3rd, 2011 02:34 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - kayla_la - Oct. 3rd, 2011 02:35 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ruins_of_sodom - Oct. 3rd, 2011 02:38 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lyrit_twilight - Oct. 3rd, 2011 04:35 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - mdetector5 - Oct. 3rd, 2011 06:10 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - clockworkshadow - Oct. 8th, 2011 03:39 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - synviver - Oct. 3rd, 2011 03:39 am (UTC) - Expand
shiftergoddess
Oct. 3rd, 2011 02:35 am (UTC)
Yeah, i've always had great luck with a simple "No thank you but thanks for the interest!" and if they keep pressing i usually just ignore it and they get the hint.
dripbat
Oct. 3rd, 2011 02:35 am (UTC)
I usually use the "My slate is too full" excuse. But its almost always true, so its not really an excuse. :o I should really just say no though. I am just afraid of offending someone though.
xianjaguar
Oct. 3rd, 2011 03:34 am (UTC)
That's the one I use as well, and like you, it's not a lie..it's the truth! I think it works just as well as saying "no" flat out, especially when it's totally true.
oceandezignz
Oct. 3rd, 2011 02:36 am (UTC)
Yeah, Kayla's pretty much said it. Just turn em down with a 'No Thanks' and call it a day.
spiffystuff
Oct. 3rd, 2011 02:43 am (UTC)
I'm not sure why you'd say anything other than "No, thanks, not interested" to the request for a trade you are... not interested in XD Don't even get into why unless the person asks you, then I guess it's up to you what you want to say. I'd phrase it as "I'm not really your style" if I felt like getting into it, which usually I don't.
ginkaruja
Oct. 3rd, 2011 02:53 am (UTC)
Just leave it at a 'No thanks, thanks for the interest.' Anything else has a tendency to sting an ego and may leave feelings of resentment. I can handle 'Fix this and this looks wrong and...' better than 'You're not my style' as I've found out at a recent con...the latter had me almost breaking down, even though I understood because I'm not really a 'cutesy' artist.
(Deleted comment)
ieatbacon
Oct. 3rd, 2011 03:05 am (UTC)
Others have already said it, but a simple, "Not interested, but thanks!" is often best. The more explanation you give, the more ways you're giving them to argue with your reasoning, so just keep it simple and polite! (< wonderful philosophy for saying no to people in other areas of life as well!) As long as you're pleasant and not rude, no one should take issue with it. And if they do, that's their fault, not yours. ^^
amocin
Oct. 3rd, 2011 03:08 am (UTC)
As pretty much everybody else has said, keep it simple to the "Not at this time, thanks for your interest though."

I tend to keep my trades to friends only, or those who I have had good business with. Also I tend to like taking trades from other people of lesser quality if they have an interesting character design that looks like something fun to work on. There is no better way to learn then to do, often with things that are outside of your norm. It may be something to ponder if you have the free time to work on such things.
lyrit_twilight
Oct. 3rd, 2011 04:38 am (UTC)
That's a different way to think about it. Thanks. =)

And on an off topic, Amocin, is that you?

I'm Defiance from that site once known as Teripets. It's a small world. |D
(no subject) - amocin - Oct. 3rd, 2011 05:12 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - duster - Oct. 3rd, 2011 05:50 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lyrit_twilight - Oct. 3rd, 2011 05:59 am (UTC) - Expand
claytronic
Oct. 3rd, 2011 03:13 am (UTC)
I really don't care about art skills/quality when it comes to trades, because I love all the art I get, but when I simply can't/don't want to do a trade [whether it be because I don't want to draw at that moment or I'm doing commissions] I'll just say "No, not right now, sorry!" and it always ends up with a "that's alright" or something along those lines. I've never had someone get upset or angry with me when saying the above :)

Hope it helps
mdetector5
Oct. 3rd, 2011 06:21 pm (UTC)
"I really don't care about art skills/quality when it comes to trades, because I love all the art I get..."

THIS.

...even though I do agree with all that you said here.

Myself, I don't mind getting art, regardless of who did it. In fact, even though I tend to lean towards friends/people I've known on DA or FA these days, I trade with just about anyone that offers trades. There are a lot of people out there that are either just beginning or not as good as they should be, and I want to at least try to do something nice for them. If it's someone better than me (and there's a lot of that "someone", to be honest), I would at least try my best on what I'm doing for them.

Sometimes, though, I have other stuff on the table, and I'm usually polite when turning people down.
miryhis
Oct. 3rd, 2011 03:40 am (UTC)
I had a similar view to Claytronic, until I got blatantly rushed art. Now I'm getting pickier about who I trade with. I know I'm not that great, but I don't want a rushed chibi that didn't even get my character right in exchange for something that took me a few hours AND has the correct markings. Seriously, I never got why people don't ask the artist if they're having trouble with the design. But the design doesn't nearly bother me as much as blatantly rushed art does. When I decline a trade I just say "no thanks", and not give a reason. As others have said, I don't see the point of giving them a reason most of the time.

Any, the "not trading with someone who would doesn't sell their art for as much as I do" seems kind of iffy. I know people with lower skill levels that sell their art for more than someone with a higher skill level. And for all anyone knows the artist with the higher skill level is just doing it for fun. There are just so many variables with that it doesn't seem like a good rule of thumb to me.
lyrit_twilight
Oct. 3rd, 2011 04:00 am (UTC)
Thanks for the comment on the "sell their art" part! I think I can take that part down from my rules now that I know it's not rude to return a simple "No" without a reason.

That was one thing I used for a reason because, uh, it was all I could think of, and even then for this person, it didn't persuade her to stop asking! (I'll edit in her last response on the main post so you see what I mean.)

But yes. Thanks for the suggestion. ^^
(no subject) - miryhis - Oct. 3rd, 2011 04:15 am (UTC) - Expand
film2edit
Oct. 3rd, 2011 03:46 am (UTC)
Just don't. You're not available, ignore them, or not accepting trades at this time.
chronidu
Oct. 3rd, 2011 03:49 am (UTC)
"No thanks, but thank you for the interest!" Has always done me well. Just be honest and polite, no need for a paragraph on why or why not.
aerotheacrobat
Oct. 3rd, 2011 03:49 am (UTC)
I personally do a lot of sketch trades with lower level artists because I like sketching and it usually makes them genuinely happy. Though if you don't want to, just be up front and say not at this time, thanks.
lurkerwisp
Oct. 3rd, 2011 04:43 am (UTC)
I love doing trades like that too. I figure that when I do a trade with someone they don't really get to pick and choose what kind of art they get from me. I'll just make what I feel like making and they get what they get. I can always do a five-ten minute sketch and see what I get in return and spiffy it up if I'm extra impressed later.

I have a lot of free time on my hands though, so I know this approach isn't for everyone. :/
lyrit_twilight
Oct. 3rd, 2011 03:55 am (UTC)
Oh wow, thanks for all the comments (and incoming) guys!

I read them all; I'll just comment on the ones I think I can add to. Besides trades and commissions, I've had few business dealings where declining had to be addressed at all, so I didn't know it was ok to say no and not give a reason. =)

Enough rambling now, off I go to reply~
celarania
Oct. 3rd, 2011 04:12 am (UTC)
I'll second what everyone else said. "Not interested at the moment" is not a personal critique, and allows you to take other trades.

What I might say on your main page is that art trades are done on a "case-by-case" basis. That won't turn off someone who may be self conscious with their art, nor will it make you seem unapproachable. In addition, it gives you some leeway to negotiate with artists that are above or below your level where one side can do a more complex or complete picture.
celarania
Oct. 3rd, 2011 04:57 am (UTC)
"Trades: Equal skill level at a minimum is a MUST. I probably won't agree to an art trade if the asking artist cannot sell his/her pieces for the prices I put on my own commissions. I have the right to refuse a trade if I don't like the style, sorry!"

So, I don't think you're making money off commissions yet, let alone $30-40 for an art piece. I'll have to decline this art trade. Thank you for your interest though!


In my experience so far, I haven't seen someone give $30-$40 for a single art piece of her skill range. Heeere it looks like she's assuming she can, maybe easily? It overall sounds like another excuse to try to convince me to pick up the art trade. I'm dropping the conversation with her.

This attitude is a real turn off for me. You don't know what she's offering or expecting and price, while a good estimate, isn't always a perfect one. It is entirely possible that she may have improved (neither of us know that), is less confident in her ability to sell work, or otherwise can not sell it, and may be offering a more complex piece for a less complex piece (e.g. a color piece for cleaned pencil drawing). You definitely weren't professional in the reply you gave her, and I don't think you've been particularly professional in describing the situation here. You seem quite wrapped up in your own work to the point where you're dismissive and at times a bit rude to people you see as "beneath" you.
fenrirs_child
Oct. 3rd, 2011 05:19 am (UTC)
I'm afraid I have to agree with this 100%. I'm glad it's not just me who noticed that.
(no subject) - ichi_black - Oct. 3rd, 2011 05:32 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lyrit_twilight - Oct. 3rd, 2011 05:44 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Oct. 3rd, 2011 06:04 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - fenrirs_child - Oct. 3rd, 2011 06:28 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lyrit_twilight - Oct. 3rd, 2011 06:43 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - celarania - Oct. 3rd, 2011 07:01 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - wolf_goat - Oct. 3rd, 2011 06:57 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - crssafox - Oct. 4th, 2011 04:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Oct. 3rd, 2011 03:06 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lyrit_twilight - Oct. 3rd, 2011 04:00 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spiffystuff - Oct. 3rd, 2011 04:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lyrit_twilight - Oct. 3rd, 2011 04:50 pm (UTC) - Expand
snippetchick
Oct. 3rd, 2011 05:16 am (UTC)
I once had someone approach me for a commission and halfway through decide to start asking for an art trade instead.

My response wasn't entirely tactful. The would-be commissioner had wasted a good half hour of my time talking about a commission by that stage when my journal clearly stated I wasn't doing trades. I had been open and upfront on my price structure very early on, so they had plenty of opportunity to bow out before wasting my time in talking about details. So my response was rather blunt.

"No, I'm not interested in an art trade instead. I'm not currently doing art trades and even if I were, I have no interest in your art and would not want a trade with you."

There was no response to that. I was happy with this as I get irritated by time-wasters.

Really though, if you don't want to do an art trade, just say so. You don't need to provide a critique or any sort of feedback on their art. You don't need to justify yourself. There's no point, and chances are that if you do so they will feel a need to defend themselves or their art, thus prolonging the discussion.
ogawaburukku
Oct. 3rd, 2011 05:44 am (UTC)
You might also check their gallery BEFORE you respond, so if they aren't up to your level you can say "I am not doing trades right now" or something. In general I don't do trades anyway, but when people ask I always look at their gallery first.
lyrit_twilight
Oct. 3rd, 2011 05:55 am (UTC)
Hullo there!

I did look at her gallery first. I decided that I wasn't interested in her art. The "skill" and then later on, "price" stuff was what I added to try to reason to her why I was declining the trade. That, uh, was apparently a bad idea. |D
lyrit_twilight
Oct. 3rd, 2011 09:24 am (UTC)
I made a summary so this'll make more sense to anyone else who stumbles across it. There were good points made on all sides!
hunter_san
Oct. 3rd, 2011 10:11 am (UTC)
I just don't mention their art at all and say "Sorry I'm not doing art trades right now, but thanks! :D"
I haven't had a problem beyond that, but with a persistent person I would just continue the theme of "No thanks", "Nah I don't feel like trades" and once they get rude "No." I wouldn't imply doing it at a later date and I certainly won't bring their art style into it - whether it be because they're not a good artist or their style is simply unappealing to me.
celestinaketzia
Oct. 3rd, 2011 12:50 pm (UTC)
I like how you turned this post into something informative! :D
lyrit_twilight
Oct. 3rd, 2011 04:17 pm (UTC)
The aim of this topic was to find an answer to the art-trade-declining scenario. Yes, my first proposed answer was flawed. That doesn't mean the valuable corrections to it shouldn't be shared. =)
Page 1 of 2
<<[1] [2] >>
( 116 comments — Leave a comment )

Profile

A_B icon
artists_beware
Commissioner & Artist, Warning & Kudos Community

Community Tags

Powered by LiveJournal.com